I had a guy who was melted into a sofa. >> Mel melted from a fire or melted? >> No, no. Melted into like from decomposition and and they come and they help me and I'm standing there and I got to get the photos of his backside, right? And they go to lift him off the couch to put him into the body bag and he literally just like peels in half. You're listening to 56, a Penllis County Sheriff's Office podcast. I'm Ricky Butler with Laura Sullivan and Ashley Culie and we are once again giving the people what they want. They wanted more forensics and we're bringing it to them. We have uh forensic science supervisor Lisa Murphy joining us on 56. And I have to say, I mean, everybody out of forensics is great, but Lisa is one of our favorites because she does great with our public education programs, especially with the kids, which is and she's this bright ray of sunshine, which is really ironic because she deals with some of the most heinous things uh that law enforcement has to encounter as part of her forensic science investigation. She's our agency blood spatter expert. She's got all kinds of uh great stories and things to tell. So, we're looking forward to getting into that. But first, Ashley has a question. >> Oh, boy. This one's a little different. >> Oh, boy. >> Driving in Florida is a video game. >> What would one of the loading screen tips be? And I'll go first. See if I can say this. >> Hold on. >> Straight through immediately. >> Is everybody with us on on what we're talking about? So, >> I don't play video games, but I'm gonna figure this one out. Okay. >> All right. So sometimes if you're like if your game is loading that you're going to play like while it's loading there's usually something there that might be give you like tips how to play the game you know whatever. So a tip for driving in Florida. >> Yeah. So it's it's a tip for driving in Florida but it's kind of like an anti- tip is kind of what I'm saying. Maybe you'll see what I'm talking about here. Remember if you realize that you're in the wrong lane screech to a halt immediately. Someone will absolutely let you over. >> Oh okay. I have a good one now then. >> I was hoping that would help. So remember, if you're parking, you only get one chance. If you park badly, you cannot readjust. >> Oh, I hate those drivers. >> Wow. I got to think creatively. >> You got one, Lisa? >> Oh, I would say, why keep both hands on the steering wheel? You have the auto correct in a lot of the newer cars. >> Oh, yeah. Lane steering >> plus a knee. >> Yeah. >> Who needs hands when you have one knee? >> Use both hands. >> Who needs eyes? >> Yeah. Yeah. Who needs eyes? That one's That one's actually That's pretty good, too. Who needs eyes? Um, let's see. Um, if you miss a turn, a U-turn is absolutely not optional. You have to just cross as many lanes as possible at once >> in the middle of the intersection. >> Yeah. Because that that is what drives me the craziest like of all the things is like you're tooling along, you're cruising, and all of a sudden somebody just whips across all three lanes. But what makes me even madder than that is when they don't turn. >> So it's like, what was that for? What was that for? You got me all pissed. You don't even have to turn here. >> That's what I'm talking about with it's kind of related to mine cuz it makes me crazy when someone is driving and they realize, oh crap, this line, this lane turns left and I won't have a choice. So, I am going to stop to get over in this lane, but I can't yet. And I'm going to block you from going to where you need to go because I messed up. >> Don't make my problem your problem. >> But most of them know. That's the ones that get me mad is when you got the sign saying, you know, no >> whatever, >> no lane change within 1,000 ft and they want to get up to the front, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Oh, people can't read. I'm convinced of that. >> Yeah. Says the writer, which is putting yourself out of work, >> AI is going to take my job pretty soon anyway. >> I did um hear that 50% of adults in the US are at an eighth grade reading level. So, >> that tracks for sure. >> A little higher than I would think. H. >> What about writing level? >> That I don't know. >> Yeah, they can't. >> I don't think it's at that level. >> Texting. >> Yeah, it's got to be. >> Well, Ashley just set us off with that question. That was a good one. Um, >> and it was easy. >> Yeah, it was an easy one. >> I thought I was I was like the format was different, but everyone has something they're mad about with traffic. >> And and by the way, Ashley is just an absolute joy to ride with. We should mic her up actually for if you like miked up Ashley could be a whole a whole like deal on social media cuz it's entertaining. >> Yeah, I'm a little driving. I always let you drive just for the show. >> Yeah, >> sometimes it's uneventful, but oftentimes I have things to say. >> Well, and you're a good driver, but it's just it's like dinner and a show. Like, it's it's really good. Um, all right. Uh, Lisa Murphy, you grew up mostly in Europe. >> I did. >> That's pretty cool. military brat. Tell us about that. >> Military brat. My dad did 21 years and >> my mom is German. >> So the the uh location of choice was always West Germany and extensions >> and then states side we had very limited base um assignments because of the line of work. My dad was in aviation. >> Okay. >> So he what branch was he in then? So >> he was in the US Army. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And he was uh he did the shinooks the the um >> big twin rotor helicopters. Yeah. maintenance. Very cool. Those are the most important people in the military, I think. Keep >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, we spent a lot of time on air force bases as well or like the dual >> bases. Um, so most of the time if I was stateside, it was in Oklahoma >> and then overseas it would be different bases, but yeah. >> So, when did you actually like officially move like to the US? Like >> not until my senior year of high school. Okay. >> Yeah. And my dad had to do state side because he was getting ready to get out. Um I stayed here locally with my grandparents. >> So you came straight to Penllis to Tampa Bay area. Okay. >> Yeah. My grandparents um lived in Oldsmar at the time and so in order to establish my own uh Florida residency, we weren't aware that basically because that was my dad's residency. I was a resident. Got it. >> Um so yeah, so um we we I established my residency for college >> and uh did my senior year at Countryside. Okay. And that was a big eye opener to me coming from like a graduating class of 50 to 500 plus. >> Yeah. So, >> how was that? I mean, did you enjoy kind of moving around growing up or was it tough for all the reasons we would assume with making friends and and all that kind of stuff or >> I was in seven different high schools. So, yeah. So, it it it is tough because you you don't um have those lifelong friendships because you're moving around so much, but you establish friendships much quicker probably and more strong when >> because you're used to Yeah. >> got latch on to who you can, right? >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. Good stuff. >> So, luckily I established friends here in my senior year. Um going to the church and uh being with my grandparents. >> Okay. And and career-wise, like was the goal always forensics or how did you end up? No. >> No. Actually, I was going to go into law enforcement. I was going to become a police officer. >> So, I went to school for that. Uh against my family's best wishes. Uh >> oh. >> It was not a place for law enforcement are not in law enforcement. You know, >> who said that? >> My grandmother was very adamant. She would send me articles overseas of, you know, oh, try this, try that. So, so it was like well known for a while that that's what you wanted to do. >> Yeah. My mom says since the time I was littleer, I pretty much had that like mindset. So, and where'd that come from? >> I don't know. I don't have any family. >> You remember like watching a show or something? I like >> I always was interested in them. I used I remember um as a child and I'm dating myself. Laura will know. Rockford Files. >> Yeah. >> And uh Quincy and things like that. I would actually sneak out of my bedroom if my parents were watching Rockford Files and watching the >> the edge of the hallway there. Yeah. So, >> that's awesome. >> So, I always had that interest, >> but nobody nobody wanted you to do it. >> No. No. >> Like even your grandmother Your grandmother was >> She was very adamant. My grandmother at the time when I moved here in '86 was mayor of Oldmar. >> Oh, really? >> Mhm. >> Sounds like somebody who was like, "Yay, women can do any profession." But, uh, >> she was she was very strong except you and law enforcement. >> Not no a woman was in the home making sure that the family was raised and the kids were raised and >> Unless you were the mayor. >> It was too dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. That was I think that was more her concern is the danger. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> I feel like that's across the board. It's like, hey, just don't go in law enforcement because it's dangerous. That's that's fair, I suppose. >> Um, so how when did that trajectory like actually change? So, you went you were going to college at the time like >> I went to St. Pete College and um >> on a Pel Grant and um started taking law enforcement type classes >> like to on the path to get you Yeah. >> Yep. met my husband in a couple of the classes and uh and then I I babysat for extra money on the side. I would I would um had set, you know, babysitting jobs and then I was working part-time as well in addition to going to school and um >> I worked for an attorney at the time and that's when he I kind of segueed I stayed in the legal profession but segueed into legal assistant, parallegal, working at the law firm. He had an opening for a receptionist and he's like, "Hey, I think you'll fit in with myself and my partner." >> And that's who you were babysitting for. >> Yeah. >> Cool. >> Yeah. So, I kind of and then I went that route for a period of time, over 15 years. >> That's it's a good chunk of time. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And then uh and then um crime scene classes started coming about and I'd always watch the CSI episodes because, you know, everybody who watches every episode of CSI can do this, right? >> Right. Of course. 100%. And it's exactly like it is on TV for sure. >> Exactly. And uh so I thought, well, let me see. Because that was always my even when I was talking about going into law enforcement, it was always the detective end. >> Um and I was real frustrated by the fact that at the time it was like you had to work in patrol for 5 to 10 years to even think about getting you can't just start as a detective. >> Well, I thought I should. >> Right. Right. On TV. >> And then I want to be K9, but I'm highly allergic to dogs. >> That's an obstacle. >> Definitely a problem. >> Yeah. So, um, so yeah, so then I I, uh, worked for them and thought, why don't I take the first class and see if I'm interested and, um, it just mushroom there and they paid for me to take my classes, so that was a win-win. >> Your your the your employer at the time? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He gave me college tuition reimbursement. >> That's cool. >> And uh, yeah, >> they paid for you to go and do another job, >> pay for my books and everything. Yeah. Then he offered to pay for me to go to law school if I stayed. But >> was that tempting? It was because I I took a substantial pay cut to come here. I think it was almost like 134,000 a year to to start in. >> So you actually So you so you took like in direct classes, but whatever that was was enough to get your foot in the door here. >> Yeah. >> Because I think >> Well, no, because even the first time I applied I um I passed the test. I was one of at the time it was a lot of interest. So there were like 500 applicants. Um 200 plus of us took the test and only 27 of us passed and I was one of the 27. Wow. >> Um, and they offered me an entry- level position in the photo lab at first, >> and the first time I I turned it down because, like I said, it was a a big substantial pay cut to to go into that position from what I was being paid as a parallegal. Mhm. >> Um and then it wasn't until the second time um that the applications came around again that I went to my husband and again they offered me the photo lab position because they promoted somebody from that area of the agency to fill the openings >> and they said, "Hey, we have this and we promise that >> you know it works out for you and we'll you'll be the next one." >> We'll get you in. Yeah. >> So I said, "Can I have the weekend to think about it? talk about it with my family because we had to make some, you know, money adjustments and uh I took it >> so and never looked back. >> What do they what do they do in the photo lab? >> So, well, at the time when I started, we were doing 35 millimeter film as well. So, um I would be developing just like I did in training in the dark room, you know, you're loading that film and developing it. >> And then we did a lot of printing of images at that time because not everything was digital. Okay. Um, we had small little I know this sounds crazy, but we had like Epson 3.2 megapixel cameras >> and that's what we started with as our digital. Um, but the the the law enforcement end the state attorney's office was afraid to let go of that digital realm. They wanted to stay 35 thinking that 35 couldn't be manipulated. And in actuality 35 can probably more easily be manipulated than digital. >> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so you didn't get to go out on scene at all for those that that was strictly working in the lab strictly in the photo lab. I did PIO type stuff. We used to have to go to the uh agency award ceremonies and events and do all the photos. We we you guys took our job. >> You're welcome. >> I enjoyed it. I enjoyed going to the picnics and and just getting out there. I'm a social person, so it makes it easier. >> Um but yeah, so that's that's what we did. We did um events like that. We developed the film, all the photos that came, we'd upload um all the images to our old server at that time. >> And now just because just to back up a smidge because we get a lot of I think there's a lot of conversation and talk about how you kind of get into this, >> you know. So when you're starting in the photo lab though, like you you got your certification or whatever it is. So and and that is a forensic science >> uh crime scene technology certification. I also have my degree my associates degree in crime scene technology. But but the but that certificate is what? >> Yeah. At the time that was not a requirement. So yeah, it was just some you know preferred training. >> Not a requirement. >> Right. Okay. Cuz it's because I I mean we've talked about it before. I think when we had uh when we had Rhonda on, we were talking about just how like when I started even 12 years ago, it was next to impossible to get into forensics. Then >> it was, you know, retire and then openings come. It's just, you know. Well, and I lived through that seven-year recession where I was low man on the totem pole for seven years and they would they would tease me. They'd say, "Oh, Lisa, what are you going to bid this shift?" And I'd be like, "Funny." Yeah. >> Yeah. Because they knew I had no choice. >> They had no choice. So, um All right. So, in the photo lab, at what point do they ever like let you go out to scenes at some point when they're trying to prep you, or you're just literally going from the photo lab into >> Yeah, I did a couple of ride alongs on occasion, but yeah. Um the good thing was is we saw you know scene photos so we were able to go through and look at all the photos. >> Um it also gave us the ability to show like our work product. >> Um >> how you know reliable we'd be you know not calling in sick all the time being and having the interest. So right um yeah. So it it it it gave them it gave us a working relationship too with the shift members. So when they they were used to us we weren't a stranger >> coming in from the outside. Mhm. >> But you also got to look at, like you said, the crime scene photos and there's some real like you're looking at bodies and horrible things that have happened to people. So, like if you can handle that, I feel like it's probably a lot different in person, but even just looking at photos. >> Oh, yeah. No, I I often joke that the photos aren't like scratch and sniff. you know, you don't get the ability to, you know, >> even in textbooks, it's like, uh, well, when I went to school, a lot of the textbooks were in black and white, so you didn't have the the color was, uh, >> they didn't want to show the blood, right? You know what I'm saying? Oh my gosh, blood is red. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No idea. >> No idea. Um, so yeah, they didn't want to uh I I guess traumatize you by having those photos in in color. Now the books that's one, you know, that's how they make their money, the textbook companies, is now they have to make them in color. So that's an additional version you have to buy. >> So did you have obviously at some point you go out there, you see your first dead body, you know, what had you seen a dead body before? >> No. >> No. Just in the books. >> I had never like I don't even think I was I don't I had never even seen a family member deceased. >> Wow. um till I was probably in my early 20s maybe. Um so no I had not um I did do a ride along and it was actually I was supposed to be heading out. It was almost the end of the time that I would be on the ride along and a and a shotgun suicide came out on the beach area >> and this is when you were still in the photo lab. >> Uh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um and I thought oh you know what I want to go. And they're like are you sure because it's you're not going to get out of here on time. you know, that type of thing. And I was like, "Oh, no. I'll go." And then the whole time there, I'm thinking to myself, "Oh crap, what if I throw up? Will will I be able to handle this?" You know, I I didn't know. And um I went out with one of the other specialists and um the subject had shot themselves with a shotgun in the >> stairwell of a condo complex. And I we pull up on scene and I at least can see that the railings I have railings outside. So the walkways are all outside. So if I do have to throw up, at least I can throw. >> Yeah. I'm thinking I don't want to be the one to throw up in a scene. So I thought, okay, that's a great thing. Um and then just walking into the stairwell and seeing, you know, the we call it mung, but like you know, brain matter and and all the blood and the uh skull fragments and things like that. I was I was amazed that I was >> not grossed out by it. Not, you know, not not able to handle it, you know. So, that was a a good thing, you know. So, I thought, "Oh, maybe I can do this." >> Am I an idiot? How do you How do you How do you do that with a shotgun to yourself? >> That's a good question because I'm like, I'm >> You have to like reverse it and with thumbs. I >> Oh my god. I just I just didn't I didn't really think that was something you could do. is making sure that is a possibility >> because you don't want to say something's a suicide and turns out to be actually a homicide. >> Right. >> So, yeah. So, taking those measurements people Yeah. I mean, you >> you really want to to We've had some where they've actually rigged up devices with strings. >> So, I mean, we've we've seen a full gamut, you know, of of how somebody wants to make sure >> Good question. It's like, are my arms long enough? >> That's like >> not for mine, but >> that would Yeah. Yeah. weird thing. But >> so you you mentioned, you know, talking about no, you know, can I handle this, you know, whatever and your comment about, you know, textbooks aren't scratched, which is was pretty funny. I think I think that's our episode title we talked about. Um but uh how you know do you from that? So you've invested a lot of time at this point. You you've gone, you know, through the classes. you've got gotten your foot in the door with this job that you know is not your ultimate goal, but you know, you get to that point and what if you're I could I can't handle this. You know, like >> we've actually had that happen, >> right? I'm sure it happens. I mean, it's no different than we have folks walk out the door on law enforcement, you know, as well. >> So, do is that something that, you know, how do you prepare for that? >> What's your think there's any real way to prepare for it? because like I said um given the interest and at the time CSI was a big thing on television so I think a lot of people had the interest in it and thought it was something that they could do but we have found I I've been the training assistant training coordinator for you know a number of years now and that is one thing in the say the last five to six years that we found we've hired people with the degrees >> and they've not been able to handle that. Um we've had some that um have required going to therapists uh just because of what they see on a daily basis. Um and that was while they were in training. >> Um now we make it a point that's one of the things um in our training program that we um make the person go out to um as especially a decomposition call um because that's where we lose some of them too. Yeah. >> Um that's like we also give them Yeah. And we make we set up and coordinate a tour at the medical examiner's office. So we make them go in there. >> Um >> and that's once they've been hired and they're in training, right? Is there any way to get them while they're still in school? >> Four. So if they're a candidate with us now um we make them come in and ride a minimum of two times on average and we make sure that during one of those times it's on day um shift hours and we arrange for them to travel with us to the medical examiner's office. Okay. So that's before they're even um given the offer for employment. Now that's smart. Um because we have we've lost um probably at least three. Now mind you, some of them were transfers from other divisions in the agency and and the sheriff invests a lot of time and money into that person. And if they just can't do the job, then we've been able to transfer them to another area or back to where they came from because that may be better suited for them. And you know, it's it's a shame they paid for the education and and um and it didn't work out. >> But they throwing up on the crime scene all the time. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We had one candidate that um uh we didn't give her the decomp mask at first to see if that, you know, and she was heaving and then the the trainer gave her the decomp mask thinking that because her first thought was it was the smell. >> It wasn't just the smell. It was the actual touching um that we have to do to the person where she could not even touch. She started heaving again and then threw up outside, you know, and so we're like, "Okay, go have a seat in the van in the air conditioning, you know." And and >> so what is there something special about a deont mask? What's a deont mask? >> We call it our de mask. >> It's just a mask. >> Well, it has it has carbon filters, so it helps um filter out those um smells. Okay. >> Um but as a specialist, yes. And keeps the bugs out of your mouth. Excuse me. The decomp bugs. >> The flies. >> Oh, okay. Well, I didn't I'm like, what are what are they want to go in your mouth? >> They want to fly everywhere. And And the closer you get to the body, obviously, the more likely when you're starting to manipulate the person and they're on the body, they're going to fly towards you, right? >> Okay. I thought it was like, you know, through. >> No, I get the the the sanitary reasons. I just thought they were like a mouth. I got to go, you know, like That's why I was like, why are why are they attracted to a mouth? >> Got it. It's just got it. >> Yes. >> Uh I have a lot of questions. Uh well, first of all, is there anything you can't handle? >> I think the toughest thing for me, it's not that I can't handle um is children. I I sometime when I've I can't tell you how many times I've had to clean up a child >> um >> or a loved one of somebody >> um just so the family could come say goodbye, you know, and sometimes it's at the hospital and nursing staff is there and sometimes they can help me and sometimes they can't. >> Um I've been asked by detectives, hurry, get to the hospital, take your photos and help clean up. So, cuz mom and dad are wanting to come say goodbye to that, you know, 2-year-old or three-year-old >> and um >> that's when I see that interaction with the family and I think about my own children and my own family, >> I get teared up every single time. So, >> and that to me, if when you start not tearing up, I think that's when it's time to retire. >> When you don't have a reaction, you can't be so legit. Yeah. Yeah. Even for deputies, the same thing. >> Yeah. you can see it on their face when they're affected. >> And yeah, I mean it's hard, you know, it's it's sometimes it's accidents and sometimes it's it's neglect. So, it just all depends. >> And when you and when you said um when you said nursing staff is there and sometimes they can help and sometimes they can't. So, when you're when they can't, that's there's some kind of a criminal or investigation, something occurring or >> No, sometimes it's just they're so busy. The ER is so busy and they're like, "Ah, yeah, I can't." um you know and and um it's me right you know so changing the sheet or putting a clean sheet or you know wrapping where the blood is not as visible that type of thing to you know be able to see their loved one >> sometimes I've had to tell people >> you don't want to see your loved one in that condition and then most of the time they're like >> they do anyways >> sometimes they do and sometimes they don't um so it just all depends yeah I've had people throw their themselves on top of a gurnie with the Emy's office and like chase the MEO van down the roadway. I mean, >> so you just never know how they're going to react. Sometimes you think they're going to be calm and collected and then you see them, you know, they'll kiss the person and, you know, and >> that's probably some of the most important work you do, though, really, besides putting bad guys in jail, >> giving that closure. >> Yeah. Yeah, probably. >> Probably. >> That's good stuff. That's important. Um, all right. Right. So, back to demp. Um, >> I also want to get back to this word mung. I I I'm a word person. I wrote that down. I bookmarked that in my head. Go ahead. >> So, so, so mung. Is that m u n g? I got to >> I We call it mug. I mean, that is a good I would say that would be how it was spelled. We don't formally use that. That's a that's one of our like I don't know slang terms that we refer to when we're on. >> That's not not a science term. >> Yeah. Not a scientific f term as far as I know. >> Okay. >> Wasn't in the textbook. >> Just No. No, it's not in the textbook, but that's what we refer to like bodily tissue. >> Okay. >> The brains and the skull bit whatnot. >> So, >> the whatnot. >> The whatnot. >> Amongst ourselves. >> Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Maybe that's what among the mung amongst amongst ourselves. Maybe I never even thought of that. >> Now, now Lisa has an explanation for it. >> Yes. Only the other thing I can think of is isn't are there mung beans? Isn't there a kind of bean called? >> Yeah, I've heard that. >> Maybe like they I feel like the shop look like brains. I don't know. >> I don't know. Google that. Um, yeah. So, you said uh you have to manipulate decon bodies. >> What do you is why? >> Well, because you have to determine that it's not actually a homicide. Um, I had I had one that I probably say when you ask me if there's ever a time that I almost threw up. That was one of them. >> Um, I had a guy who was melted into a sofa. >> He melted from a fire or melted >> no melted into like from decomposition. settled into it >> and bodily fluids. Yeah, he just he was melted into that sofa. >> Um, you know, with his back on the sofa. He was just laying there >> and um body uh body removal from me was coming and I can't leave until, you know, somebody can help me see his backside. I want to make sure there's no knife sticking out of him or bullet wounds. >> Wow. >> And uh and they get there because most deputies are not going to help me. >> It's me and only me. And on occasion, you can get a deputy to help you, but when they're in that state of decomposition, most of them will not want to help you. >> They're so weak. >> Actively admit it. Like I've had them tell me, I don't know how the heck you do this. Like I Yeah, I could smell them from the door and I'm peace out, you know? Right. >> So yeah. So um they do sometimes they there's some that are fine and they will help you and sometimes it depends on how decomposed they were. Um, this guy was in a trailer in the Duneden area. It's a, you know, section 8 low lowincome trailer park. >> No air conditioning. >> I think that's a story of your life, right? >> I say that. I say if there's a house in Penelis County, uh, that's a crime scene and it doesn't have air. It's got my name all over it. I get all the ones that have no air. No air. And I don't know how people live that way. >> I don't either. >> That's Oh, it's unbearable. And of course, we can't turn the air on. Sometimes they don't even have power, so we're not able to turn the air on. >> Um, >> if they did, why why couldn't you? That would disturb evidence. >> Well, yeah, because we have to document in the conditions it's in. Um, initially at that point, yeah, sometimes we do crank the air all the way down. Um, so it just all depends on how long we're going to be in there and what we have to do. But yeah, it's it's asis when we get there. So, um, anyways, this guy's melted into the couch and they come and they help me and I'm standing there and I got to get the photos of his backside, right? And they go to lift him off the couch to put him into the body bag and he literally just like peels in half. >> Oh. >> So, the one side of the front side of him goes into the body bag, but I can see his entire spine, like all the bones, all the ribs, everything. And then the back is still stuck to the couch. And I'm like, and I was like, it was something out of a horror movie. Like, I mean, we're talking like, you know, Walking Dead, like >> skit. And I I had to put my hand up and I go, "Okay, I need a couple seconds." I went outside, breathed a couple times, and I was like, "Okay, I can do this." And go back in. And I was like, "That is the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my entire life." And >> coming from you, that means a lot. >> Yeah. It was just I that wasn't what I was visualizing was going to happen. And to see the bones like as pristine white as possible on the back that Yeah. That wasn't what I thought it was going to. >> So what happens to the part that was left behind? Does that get to stay there and get thrown away? Does that get does somebody have to scoop that up? >> Sometimes they do. This is Yeah. Yeah. And then same, you know, with um brain matter. If we have brain matter um present on, >> you know, a mate traffic crash, things like that got to try and collect as much as possible and put it in the bag. So, yeah. So, and then of course, you know, I'm telling the manager of that trailer park because those are rentals. You know, this this trailer has to be condemned. It's, you know, there's no recovery from the fluids that have leaked into the floor and >> and uh >> let let me guess. It's still >> being condemned before he was even residing in it first off. You know, that's how bad it was. >> Um but I I've now I'm almost afraid to go back in there and see if it's still there. So, did you find like Okay, so that happened. His back is still there. >> How do you look at the back? No injuries. >> Okay. >> He looks injured in these photos, though. >> He looks very injured. >> Yeah. No, no, we do look. And then, like I say, in his case, he he was an alcoholic and um there was evidence of, you know, excessive drinking and things like that. So, it's probably cerosis. And and then the sad thing is is there's a lot of people that don't have any loved ones that check up on him, right? That's why he was there for >> And the one who Yeah. The one who found him was actually one of the teenage neighbors and it was on a dare cuz they were like, you know, there were the flies and the smells. And so they dared somebody to go up and look in the window and see if they could see what was in there. And that's when he saw the guy on the couch and they called 911. So in that instance, >> how many did >> they've been smelling that smell for weeks? >> That's what I'm saying. Like what was the estimation like as to how long >> he had to have been in there? Well, no air again because like I said it's my scene. Um so good two weeks. Wow. >> Yeah. I mean he wasn't mummified. He still was >> had liquid, you know, present in the in the body. So >> do you still This is probably too gross, but like >> there's no such thing on this show. >> Do you still like look like a person after like two weeks? Well, with the melt with the melt, you know, com or description, it makes me think of I don't know what what what you look like when you've melted. >> If you think about the bone structure is still all there. True. So, yeah. So, that's what you're kind of seeing is the bone structure and just the the skin will start leatherizing and you know, um the fluids are exiting the body. So, just kind of being absorbed into that sofa or floor or wherever you are. Um, initially, I mean, I've had deputies ask me the color of the individual when I've gotten unseen because you take on different colors, right? Um, >> they're trying to identify if it's the homeowner or whatever. >> Yeah. Is this a, you know, a white male or is this a black male? You know, based on coloring that occurs. Um, and just, you know, I've had one where deputies, uh, it was a hanging and the gentleman was in his backyard for an extended period of time in this Florida heat and his face, you know, because the decomposition started at the at the foot, you know, the head first. And um, and I had a new recruit at the time with me. That was one of her first uh, demps. And um, they had IDed him. and the medical examiner got on scene and he's like, "How the heck did they ID him off his driver's license photo, you know, and I was like, "That's a good question because I don't know how we'd ID him." And then luckily we were able to um peel back a couple layers of skin on his um shoulder and we saw the outline of a tattoo. So then we were able to ID him through tattoo, not facial recognition, >> cuz that's out the window once. >> That's out the window. >> You have no face. Yeah. That tends to not be >> There's still bones there. >> Yeah. And and you got the insect activity. They're eating the flesh and >> Yeah. >> Do you guys do anything with that like the like the timing of a death based on the insect activity? >> We actually don't really. I mean you you see that in textbooks and things like that that you're going to collect the bugs and we can't collect the bugs. So um in fact we've had the opposite. I had a case where we had um >> we've had several cases where we've had like you know live maggots and then the eggs and the hatching. We went through like two months at our garage where somebody had intook a vehicle with um all the maggots and the insect activity and we basically were on bug duty for oh >> months trying to make sure we could eradicate everything from our garage. >> I just I just learned the other day the MO because they they'll bring demps there and they're they the flies will hatch. They have a they have a bug zapper there. Although they said most of the time the bugs aren't they can't really fly because it's just so cold in there. So they're just yeah crawling around flies. I literally was googling one time we had collected um the clothing and things like that. So the maggot and the eggs and all that are also on the clothing that's removed from the person >> and we had put it in our drying chamber down um in our tech 3 building >> and they were crawling off the clothing and coming underneath the opening of the door >> and we got other evidence in that entire building. So I was like googling what you could >> transferring DNA on their little fly feet and everything. it was the maggots they were crawling out. And so I went in um saw that like salt >> uh works. So I literally had made a whole salt row at the base of the door to like >> and feels like witchcraft a little bit. >> It does. It does. >> Trying to eliminate them that way that didn't work very well. Very successful. >> You probably have to be considerative of how it could impact whatever else whatever you're spraying or whatever salt. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So now it's uh that they have to be frozen. um we have freezers specifically for that. So if if it's clothing that has to be retained >> then um we freeze those items and then they get transferred directly to property and evidence and placed immediately into a freezer. So that's a oneto one. We can't put it in the locker and then have it transferred to property. We've got to keep it frozen. Okay. Um, and again, that was a good Google find, you know, and so, so Google sometimes does help. >> And you're going to keep clothing when it's suspected that it's like some >> illicide. Yeah. And there's a um, we've we've destroyed clothing before in instances. Um, only because it has no evidentiary value when it's so degraded like that. Um, so the ME and the U forensic lab has been like, you know, no, discard that. take good photos of it, document it, and let's discard it. In other instances, we've been requested to retain it. So, if we have to retain it, then it gets frozen. >> Wouldn't that go out? That makes sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because those I think those boogers can still come alive like when they thaw if you have the eggs there, they're frozen. >> So, >> I'll have to Google that, too. Yeah. >> I will not Google that. >> No. No. You don't want to know. No. So, any other um notable I don't even know where to start. >> Yeah. >> Like uh so you had so you had the the um that was your first dead body on a ride along. What was kind of your first like >> Oh, so wait, did we get to what? Like when you saw you saw the body, you didn't have to throw up, but what what was your like first impression? Like, oh, this was cool. Or >> wow. Yeah, it was funny because I was even like, oh, I was finding evidence. So, I was like, oh, here's here's a big chunk of skull because we have obviously had to collect all that. Well, Emmy had to collect it and um and little things like that. So, I was like, I can do this. So, it was almost like an exhilaration. Not really. I mean un the sad thing is is a lot of times I mean I have to tell you we see some homicides and they're over the most ridiculous things. Um in that instance where it was the suicide it was all over the fact that he and his wife had been fighting >> um it was their anniversary and it was over coffee. >> Oh >> now obviously he had some other types of issues and things like that but we were told they got into an argument over making a cup a pot of coffee >> and then he went into the the stairwell and and and um shot himself. Wow. So, I'm thinking, really? Over a pot of coffee, I've had um homicides occur between two people over somebody owing them $10. I'm like, dude, I would have given you 20, >> no questions asked, just not to have done this, right? >> You know, so I mean, it's just crazy what some people will >> take to an extreme for the stupidest reasons ever. >> And and most of the time it's usually involving drugs, money, or a significant other. >> Sex, drugs, and money. >> Yep. Mhm. >> The holy trinity of crime. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you could just eliminate all of them. >> No, please. >> Yeah. >> Uh we're going to move on. So, uh so once you finally get once you're out there and you're you're kind of doing your thing, um you know, what how'd that go? Was there any now that you've seen that you had that confidence, was there anything that like initially might have knocked you down a notch or something you encounter? >> Let me tell you, we are a much kinder, gentler agency to our new recruits now cuz I had I had uh yeah, we had at the time we would have people put like uh sticky notes on the van in like a weird obscure spot because, you know, you're supposed to check your vehicle every time you come go into it and it would be like or a band-aid and it'd be like, "Did you find the band-aid?" So that's supposed to indicate body damage to the vehicle, you know, and if you didn't tell your trainer about what you saw, you know, then you get a, you know, a zero one for the day. >> Um, and then I had one, I love him to death, my trainer. Um, he's since retired, but um, we had seven, and this is back in the day when people forced entry into our vehicles, >> right before it was so easy to just open the door. >> Yeah. Yeah. Now it's so easy. Um but yeah, they would they would pry out stereo dash systems. Nobody does that anymore. You have CarPlay. You don't need a stereo system. So I was working um a black, you know, seven cars on a black top with the stereoss pried out, you know, forced entry to every single one. And my trainer at the time was like, "You got this, Lisa?" And I was like, "Yeah." And he went back to the van and sat in the air conditioning and let me work through all those cars. And then I'll never forget because the sergeant was like, "Did he just go back to the van and he's leaving you to do this?" I'm like, "Yep." >> Yep. So, yeah, now we get in there and we help him, you know, we do half the car, that type of thing. But yeah, that was that was back in the day when I started, it was nothing to take seven crime scene calls in a day. >> In a day. >> And we'd have calls holding. So, it would just be whoever was the rotation went out the window. >> It was ever who whoever was up next. >> Right. Just everybody go for it. >> Yeah. Now we're kinder. We have rotation and and you know if somebody's busy doing um you know a lot of evidence or whatever, we'll skip them and let somebody else take it. Things like that. So it makes for a much easier you know. >> And I think that's another thing too like that people don't realize about forensics is like yeah you guys are out there on scene but you do a ton of work >> back in the lab, back at the office, you know, whatever it is you're doing. So it's not just like oh we just collect the evidence and drop it off and somebody else deals it. >> We even build our evidence. So we now build it where we used to do that. >> Yeah. So we build it, we process it, and you know, we've been very fortunate to have all the equipment and the technology that we do have because there's a lot of agencies that don't have that technology and that equipment. So we've been very lucky in that regard. It's kind of tough when you have somebody right out of college or something and they come and they start their first career is here. They don't have that appreciation, you know, for those lower >> um agencies that only had, you know, powder or super glue and that's it, you know. >> But then when you get people who come from other agencies, >> their eyes just go wide when they see all the fun stuff that you have because you have really good equipment. >> We do. Yeah. And we work hard. I mean, some of it is through grants that we help write and then others is the sheriff finding the money to be able to purchase that equipment to stay on that leading edge. Yeah. >> Yeah. Because I mean it's >> you got to stay one step ahead >> and we've always been that way >> and I I mean I'm I'm happy about it but it's always like you know why at what point I mean I know it was under you know Sheriff Rice but we just decided hey we are going to be >> the forensics leader and just went for it and we're a regional resource too which is really cool. Yeah, >> because we have folks from all over the place that are always here either touring or sometimes operational reasons they're bringing you evidence and things >> and sometimes other agencies, you know, rely on us. When we had that band-aid bandit, the bank robber FBI was like, I don't care where in the state of Florida that he robs the next bank. It's going to be Penelis County that's going to respond to that scene. And just coincidental for us, it happened to be Penelis Park was the last one he robbed, which was our jurisdiction. Yeah. Like stuff like that. But when you're recognized by those other agencies and other organizations and and known to be like, you know, top dog, >> best in the field, you know, best practices. It's it's it says a lot. >> Got to be a good feeling to be a part of that, too. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. The the band-aid bandit. I forget. Did we solve that with through forensics or through witness? Tell me about that. >> Yeah. Well, a combination of a lot of different things, but yeah, he was um >> his fingerprint on the >> on the zip tie. Zip tie. Yeah, he was escalating. It was going to get, you know, bad. Um but yeah, he he um had zip tied and we had like uh they had like tips of the finger on the zip ties and um and when they finally caught him, he actually didn't even live in our area. He lived up in um near CM St. Cloud area and was traveling to the different banks. Um they got him on surveillance video, too. That's that was a one of the um warehouses down there near the bank uh because he would stake out his banks before he would rob them >> and he put band-aids on his face to >> Yeah. That's I don't fully remember, but I remember there was this guy that would put a band-aid on and it was like that's all they could remember about him was the band-aid. >> Yeah. And I didn't realize until not too long ago there was because I mean that's a federal crime when you rob a bank. It's federal money. I didn't realize there's a statute of limitations on prosecution. You know, we had one >> I didn't Yeah. Yeah. We had one up in Palm Harbor that I worked um and the the guy robbed the same bank twice within like two months of each other and I had his finger the first time. So, >> yeah. Yeah. And I had his fingerprint on the teller count counter. >> Um he had come in, you know, with a co mask and things like that on sunglasses, you know, baseball hat, that kind of thing. I had a fingerprint, but he wasn't in the database and we didn't really know if it was even his fingerprint. I just could watch surveillance video he touched in that area. >> Um and then it wasn't until he fle >> and of all things he was pulled over on a traffic stop in Georgia and arrested for not having I think a valid driver's license or some type of infraction. >> And he was booked into the local jail and his prince went into the system and boom literally three months four month three to four months before the statute of limitations ran on that bank robbery. >> Wow. And then he admitted to having done it. Our detectives went up there to Georgia and he admitted to having robbed the bank twice >> and um and uh and did it to support his drug habit. >> So >> Dang. >> Yeah, >> that's kind of cool to get to see full circle. >> Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. And that one I think made the papers. Yeah, that one was robbed. That's by Alderman there. >> Yeah, >> that's also blows my mind like why would he admit to it? >> Yeah, that's at that point. I always teach my son never admit to anything. Ask for lawyers, don't admit to anything. >> Well, they had his prince there. >> I went to that shaggy center. >> I don't know. >> Yeah, >> but >> don't tell people. >> I know. I was like, these are >> I mean, cuz this gives us some job security. They're not the smartest. I mean, we've had some that are highly highly educated homicide suspects and they just make the stupidest mistake cuz they think they can outsmart everybody. You had the one who he killed his ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend or ex-wife and her new boyfriend. >> Didn't he think he was going to get away with it? >> Wife and her new boyfriend. Yeah. Tell us that story. >> Yeah, that was he was an executive and um and that was that was pretty I was working that night so I heard the the radio dispatching going on. Um, and that was one where the 911 call play paid played a key role because she had actually been able to dial 911 from a phone. Um, and it captured the crime occurring on the 911 call. And then he carried that digital phone downstairs, not realizing that um, it was still on. >> Um, so you could hear him patting down the stairs and then the scary part was you could hear our deputies as they entered the front door and calling out, you know, sheriff's office. And that's eerie. Um and we believe that he went out the back door. We've never we never recovered the firearm in that homicide. Um we had trials twice because first time he was um sentenced to death times two and that was when they changed it to it had to be unanimous jury and so he got a retrial and now he's doing life with no chance for parole times two. Um, and then that one I also had to testify civily because the family sued. He was a multi-millionaire, so they sued um his estate >> and and won a $55 million judgment, I think, against him. >> Wow. And he was smart enough to get away with it, right? >> Yes, he did. He was very smart. He screwed up in two instances. One was the the dog. Um she had two um little dogs and one of them was um tagged with uh the chip and the dog had gotten out. she was out of town and um the dog had run away and the vet had called him because um he was listed still on the dog and that dog was inside the residence and it shouldn't have been. >> Um so he had put the dog back in. >> Um so that was one that >> to see it to see his mom die. Oh yeah, the one Well, it was it was that was one. It was an interesting one, too, because one of the other specialists that I worked with um she had to suit up because the one dog did have blood on his paws. >> Oh. >> And he had stayed with her. >> Um >> Yeah. That's so sad. >> Yeah. And so they had deputies had actually put that dog in the shower and we had to leave that dog in the shower for a period of time because we had to do, you know, we had to work our way up there. That was a who done it case and the victims were on the second floor versus we're entering from the bottom floor. M >> um so that poor dog had to stay in that shower for a number of hours um till we could get to the bodies or the body one had been transported. The male was still alive at the time. Um and then the other dog they locked in the downstairs bathroom, the guest bathroom and that dog shredded every piece of toilet paper that was in there. So we opened the door and that was the vicious one and he was little too but yeah we were like oh. >> So um yeah. So that one and then like I said we never recovered the firearm itself but um he had um left the gun case at his in his residence. So when we got the search warrant for his residence um I guess he did not realize that Glock does test fire rounds and so we had casings on our scene and he had left the Glock test fire rounds in the underneath of the gun case and those were compared and and found to be >> because those those are unique like fingerprints. >> Yeah. They actually flew They actually flew the individual from Glock that had fired those test fire rounds and she testified. That was a long day for me because I had to let all these other people on the stand in front of me and I had not slept at all and I could not sit down because I was afraid I would fall asleep in the courthouse and um and then I ended up having to return the next day because uh they needed to get everybody that had flights out in front of me. But the other thing is um he left the holster on the nightstand and I got his DNA on the holster. So um yeah, so he had a number of things working against him, but was very educated. Very educated man, >> but not as smart as he thought he was. >> No. Right. >> No. No. So now he's he's sitting in the jail cell. >> What are some other notable cases that you've you've worked? >> Oh gosh. >> It was all the good stuff, Lisa. >> Or the bad stuff. >> Or the bad stuff. >> I was trying to think of a few. We do a lot of work our our division does a lot of work for outside agencies too. We're one of the um money generating divisions of the of the agency because we have contract cities. >> Um so Clearwater is one of our largest contract city in Penelis Park. Um I worked the notable um incident with um the domestic violence incident. She's a big proponent of of domestic violence. She was stabbed. >> More than 30ome. >> That's with um >> Rebecca. Yeah. So I >> And then she ended up marrying the paramedic. >> Yes. Isn't that like a true love story god of a very tragic situation? Yeah. So I um I was the one that was at the hospital with her um documenting her injuries and as they were stapling her, I found some additional injuries that they had missed, you know, and I'm like, "Hey, there's a stab wound here." Um, but that was probably the first and only time in my 20 plus years that I've had to wear booties inside the trauma room because as fast as they were giving her blood, she was losing blood. >> So, um, that, you know, is unusual. You don't usually see that much um, blood in a trauma center. >> Um, >> you told me some horrible stories about the trauma room floors, too, right? >> That's one of my pet pee. I I was never a germaphobe till I started doing this job and I come by OCD honestly but that I see them I see them when they clean it. So they'll go in like the cleaning staff will go in and they have this like uh I think it's like OxyClean or something in a spray bottle and they spray where they see blood and that's how they clean the floors in there. So I think in her case they probably definitely had to mop the entire area but um No, they do. They don't. I don't I >> because you more than anybody else knows that >> you don't necessarily have to see the blood for there to be blood there. >> Correct. Yeah, that's a big thing. And it doesn't even have to be a homicide to have blood. I mean, I love it when I go to a residential burglary and I got blood on a scene and possible fingerprints. That's like a twofer. I call that a bogo, >> right? >> You know, so yeah, I love that. So, um, but yeah, they don't No, I sit with my arms and they'll eat in there. They will seriously eat in there. They will bring food in on the >> snack surgeries. >> Yeah. They like Christmas time they'll have a tray of cookies and they'll be like, "Murphy, you want a cookie?" Heck no, no, no, no, no. >> So, I don't know. I don't know this story that you were talking about, I don't think. Or it's not ringing a bell. >> Which one? The >> uh the the domestic. >> Yeah. So, she's a big proponent. She does a lot of um she's a speaker reference to the domestic violence. um she was involved in a relationship, her high school sweetheart, and um he had tried to hurt her before. She had restraining orders against him and he threatened her family and she was living at home and she I think unbeknownst to her family, she went outside um near Crest Lake Park there to talk to him because he wanted to talk to her and he attacked her with a knife and she managed to fight and survive. Um she was bayflighted to Bayfront and um had lost a substantial amount of blood and and had suffered like uh she even has when you see her she has a substantial scar on her face um and um she she's a beautiful girl. She's still beautiful and um even despite that scar and she has a slight um downward angle on the one side of her mouth because of the injuries and the nerves that were severed in her face. and she was stabbed an insane >> insane amount of all in the upper body. So, we're talking head, neck, um face. >> Um and then he got into the car. He he tried overdosing on over the counter meds and uh and drove up to Pasco, ended up crashing his car into um like a convenience store up there and they took him into custody up there. So, he tried like to commit suicide, I guess, um afterwards. But um she is a big proponent on domestic violence, has a um I saw recently she has a recovery um farm where she helps do um you know she gives she's giving back to her community greatly. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that guy is locked up for he's he's done. Okay. >> I would I would hope. >> But yeah. Yeah. He um >> he just if he couldn't have her, nobody would, you know. And then one of the one of the paramedics that helped um >> Oh yeah. >> She ended up uh you know developing a relationship with him and marrying him. And >> that is so sweet. >> Yeah. >> I don't think I'd ever heard that. That's awesome. >> And you said something you said something interesting too. Um >> because of the extent of her injuries, you were at the hospital also because you're still trying to document like what happened. How often does that happen? I mean is that cuz you're you're that's that's why you're there, right? You're trying to So while they they're simultaneously trying to save her life, like you're still sitting there trying to get the case for the case, >> find the person responsible. >> Absolutely. In her case, they were stapling her because they needed to get those wounds closed to, you know, stop the blood loss. >> Um so they were just stapling them and then they're like, well, you know, once we get her up into surgery, then we once we stabilize her and get her into surgery, then we can worry about making these injuries pretty. Um, so yeah, even in trying to photograph her, I found additional wounds like in her hairline and things like that, stab wounds, and then they're like, "Oh, staple that one." >> Um, you know, so yeah, she had quite extensive injuries and it's sad, you know, but again, she's made something so great out of that and she survived. >> Um, which is the key, you know. Um, and then, um, what a high stress environment though to have to like document because I feel like most of the time you're not it's not you're >> right. there's everything and and whatever, >> right? You're taking your time at the same time. >> I mean, lifesaving um medical intervention is obviously the priority. Um so sometimes I'm having to step back and let them do what they do and then other times I'm sitting there waiting until they're done doing what they're going to do. I love going into the operating room. I've been into the operating room multiple times. Um >> not me. >> Oh, it's it's Yeah, >> I'm glad that there's people like you. >> Yeah, >> for sure. And just to watch them working on somebody, I've seen somebody's whole chest opened and they're actually manipulating the heart to keep it pumping on their efforts to try and save that person. It's just phenomenal. >> And why would you be I mean because you're obviously not able to document anything happening or like it's because you can't get close enough to whatever. It's like is there a reason you're in there for that or it's just because it's cool? >> It's the last No, it's the last photo. Sometimes that's or they're pulling bullets out. So that's going to be something I'm literally like documenting. It's like >> I'm documenting the injuries. Yep. Okay. >> Yeah. And sometimes it's in the life-saving, you know, uh, status and then sometimes we have to wait until they're in recovery >> um, before we can do that. But we suit up, too. Like they make us they make us, which is really funny because they make us wear tyback and booties and hairet, but my camera is not necessarily sanitary. But, um, you know, hey, >> we'll keep literally. We look like a Stay Puff Marshmallow Man when we go there. Yeah. Yeah. From Ghostbusters. So, yeah. >> Wow. >> Dang. We get sometimes we get to go in. Yeah. It's not every time, >> but sometimes we do. Cuz if we're arriving and that's where they are, it's like go go go. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So, speaking of dealing with people like, you know, after the fact, after the crime, >> you you may be dealing with a suspect. >> Yes. >> And not know it or or whatever. Like, how do you kind of work that out? And do they ever say anything to you that you use against them? like how does that that has to happen, right? >> Sometimes they can, you know, I've had um I had one shooting again for one of our contract agencies and it was funny because I had to go process the the wife. >> Mhm. >> And um and they wanted me to do um gunshot residue on her as well. And even in that scene, that scene specifically, the suspect was literally in the house that was directly diagonal from our scene the entire time we were on scene. So they thought he was a suspect, but at that point they didn't have, you know, all the information to confirm that he was um but um so when they brought the his spouse, you know, they took him into custody and then they brought his spouse down to the agency and I had to do her and um we have this GSR kit and has a series of questions on it and one of them is >> gunshot residue. GSR >> gunshot residue. Yeah, GSR. And uh one of the questions is what have you done between the time of the incident to now? And so that's printed on the form. So I'm in there processing her and that was one of the questions I asked her and she's like,"Well, do you want to know before I hid the gun or after I hid the gun?" >> Which I'm guessing she had not told the detective. >> You're like, "Let's go with both." >> No. Yeah. So of course they're like knocking on the door and then they're like, "Can we see you for a second?" And I was like, "Yeah." And they're like, "Keep her talking." like she's voluntarily, you know, >> she realized that or she >> I think she probably did. I mean, we found the gun. It was under the cushion on the couch. So, you know, she knew we were entering the residence, right? >> You know, so I'm sure she probably knew >> she probably figured we were going to find it at that point, you know, but yeah, she she admitted to being the one. Um, and then that's led them to ask her additional questions of like, did he give the gun to you? What did he say to you when he gave you the gun? you know, that type of thing. So, I've also had it where um a stand your ground hearing where I've received a motion and they've been like, "We need you at the stand your ground hearing because you said in your report the person reported no injuries from the incident." And I was like, "Yeah." And they're like, "Um, well, we need you to come in and say that." And I said, "Well, uh, it was in an interrogation room. You know, I believe it's recorded." And, um, so they're like, the state attorney's been like, "Oh, hold on. Stand by. I'll get right back to you. And then they've gone and listened to the recordings and they're like, "Oh, yeah." >> Because that's the other thing. I want to document any injuries, whether it's related to the incident or not related to the incident. Even it's scabbed. I want to show that it was there and it's not related. >> Um, >> so yeah. So, sometimes they've said things and sometimes they're more comfortable saying things to us as females, I think, >> than males. I've gone out on a residential burglary and it turned out to be a sexual assault. um where the suspect it's basically a home invasion and he attempted to sexually assault her >> but they didn't want to tell the deputies. >> They didn't want to tell the deputy at the time. So the moment females were there and then we get a female deputy and I was like tell them what you told me you know kind of thing and then yeah so um >> going back to the stand your ground one um so you said that he has told you he wasn't injured >> but how how did that how did that come into the case later on? Oh, because he was claiming it was self-defense and he was injured and you know and so then they were like so I had to shoot him the stand your ground right goes right out the window. >> So then they're like okay there won't be any motion on stand your ground. It's done. Judge could make a ruling. >> Nice. >> So yeah, it just all depends. >> Um and like I said, I think again sometimes we have them where they'll say and we know they're the suspect. We know they're going to jail or they're not going getting to go home and they'll ask us, >> am I going to get to go home after this? and we have to say, "Oh, I don't know, honey." You know, I can't tell you how many times I've had to say that, >> you know, where I you know, we we're trying to do our job and we can't, you know, we gota >> how to be as cooperative as possible. >> So, if it's if it's not the suspect who you're dealing with, but they make like a spontaneous admission like like that person who said, you know, before after I hit the gun, >> they're not like being detained, so they don't have to be Mirandaized. You're just you're not >> that's up to I mean, we a lot of time I mean that's up to Yeah. I don't know whether she was or was not. You know, they call me a couple >> because you're not investigating the crime. You're not interrogating her. You're not questioning her about that. You're just questioning questions on the list. I want I'm here for you. Even if it is a suspect and they've been injured in in whatever occurred, I'm there to document that as well. So, you know, it just it's I'm here for you. >> So, um you know, I I had one guy, I was a residential burglary and he had all kinds of drugs. You could tell you walk in the apartment, you knew there was drugs everywhere. And he was a victim of a residential burglary. >> And I was like, "Look, I was born at night, but not last night. Like, where were the drugs? Just make my job a little bit easier. Like, where were they going to?" Because they had trashed this whole place trying to find these drugs. And he's like, "Um, well, am I going to go to jail?" And the officers were like, "No, no, you know, just tell us what you did with them." Because he he pul he pulled him out of the house. And I was like, you're yes, you are a drug dealer, but you're still a victim, right? You know, so um I continued to do my processing. And next thing I know, he's being cuffed and put in the back of the cruiser. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, what happened? >> You know, I mean, he wasn't going to go to jail. He was just going to tell you where where the drugs were. He had bagged them and put them in the dumpster in special bags. And it was like over 20. It was like pounds of marijuana. And they're like, Murphy, we don't have a choice. we have to take him to jail. We thought it was just going to be a baggie. I didn't realize it was going to be pounds of marijuana. And I was like, "Oh, here I was telling him, you got just tell him where the drugs are." >> And then he did. And >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Never telling Murphy anything ever again. >> Yeah. Jeez. You had another case um that I remember because um it was used to use it for the uh flythrough demonstration for citizens academy the commercial comm fisherman uh robbery that happened. That was an interesting case. Tell us about that. >> We call that my scavenger hunt crime scene. >> Can we like like set the scene? I I I know nothing literally about this. So, I was night shift um and it was a commercial fisherman and unbeknownst to me, I've I've gained a great amount of education and narcotics and all kinds of things doing this job. So, in that case, I did not realize how much money commercial fishermen make in cash when they bring in a large hall of fish. So, he had like gotten $40,000 and he was not a big bank person, so he kept it in cash. Mhm. >> So, he had um had rolls of money and he'd given actually his mom some to hold and then he had some and he'd hidden some. Well, um one of the suspects, it turned out it was three, there were three suspects. One of them um had resided in the home with him for a period of a few months when he was down and out on his luck, you know, a while before. And so he they knew he had taken in a big hall um of money. And so they broke in while they were sleeping and they held him at gunpoint to steal the money. And they were um they had covered themselves with like t-shirts and one had a mask. Um and one had a gun. The other gun was a BB gun. It was fake. Um and I don't know that the third person had a gun, but anyways, long and short is um they went in, they got into a struggle with him. One of them fired the gun and shot him in the abdomen with a 22. And I honestly don't think they maybe me thought that the 22 would kill him. >> Tiny tiny little bullet, right? >> Yeah. Tiny little bullet. But what they don't know is that that bullet is known to bounce around inside the body. So it basically obliterated multiple organs and he was bleeding internally to death. >> And he ended up collapsing in his mother's arms because he went to the bedroom to wake her up to get the money that she had. um and they transported him and he ended up succumbing to his injuries. But as they fled the scene, they had run they had gotten to the scene from an apartment building that was approximately almost a mile away. So as they were fleeing, they ran down his street around the corner and down this entire um neighborhood which was, you know, multiple blocks down the street. And as they were running, they were discarding things. They they were smart. Again, this was smart. They had latex gloves on. They disguised their faces. Um, so but then they started taking the items off. So they discarded the playex gloves. One was in the grass. Three were in the garbage can of, you know, people had their garbage cans down the roadway out for the out for the day. And if we hadn't gotten there in time, obviously those things would have been collected by the um >> garbage services. So, uh, we had shirts, we had, you know, we had, um, a a pouch, we had the BB gun that we ended up finding underneath one of the trucks. And that's actually where I got the fingerprint. I got a palm print. Um, and I was like thinking to myself, self, if I were the suspect, and I was throwing this gun under this car, where might I touch? And I ended up with his palm print right on the side of the truck where he must have put his hand on it the gun to study. He >> took his gloves off like a dumbass. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. And that was the first lead I gave to Penelis Park was his name um off his palm. And then that led to the um uh arrest and um >> uh and then they had actually the actual firearm that had been used in the event was thrown into a retention or drainage ditch that was between the two streets. And the first time the dive team went out there to try and recover that, they did not find it. and they had the one um suspect was cooperating and he had done a drawing and told them exactly where he discarded this firearm um and they went back a second time and dove and then found it had been it got caught under the pipe um one of the drainage pipes. So it was lodged right there. But that was more than a year after the homicide had occurred that they went back the second time and found it. And at that point it was so deteriorated that um FDLE was not able to say it was a positive match. But we had, you know, they dropped the magazine. There were live rounds. But what was funny is I didn't even know there had been a DNA um hit on that one until I was being deposed. And and of course there were three attorneys representing the three different defendants. And one of them goes, um, I hope it's not my client's glove that you got the blood on. And and I was like, oh, I didn't know that. You know, cuz we don't it's an outside agency. you don't always hear back on those um identifications. >> And it turned out um the victim's blood was on the on one of the gloves, a small little area that I'd seen and collected. >> Um and then I had the DNA on each of their gloves from swabbing the cuffs of the gloves. And um so yeah, so they had the DNA on the the mask. Uh it was funny because the next day uh the neighbor called in, the dog was in the backyard playing with this full face mask. Um, and they're like, "Uh, this might be a clue. Let me call, you know, law enforcement." And we were still able to extract DNA from that mask. So, along with the dog's DNA. >> So, yeah. >> And what did you say you called it? >> We called it my scavenger crime scene because literally it was all down the roadway. There was something discarded. And the first was um they were just doing a neighborhood canvas, the the detectives and officers, and the one guy goes, "Um, my wife found a $100 bill when she was leaving for work." And so it was inside the house and a and he put it in a ziplockc bag. Um so she thought she'd like won the lotto. You know, she got a $100 bill just blowing around in the roadway and turned out it was part of the money that >> husband had put it in a plastic bag. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he brought it out to me and I was like, "Okay." >> Did he say why he put it in a bag? >> Well, he knew enough about watching forensic shows, you know, that he he Yeah. He'd already touched it once, so he didn't want to touch it again, >> you know. He's like, "This might be a clue. Let me give this to you." Yeah. You know, and then I had to go I had to and I was supposed to be leaving early that day. Not leaving early, but you were, you know, we were turning over everything to dayshift. And I was so thankful cuz let me tell you, he had a pet. I don't like rodents and reptiles. >> Oh, >> that's my I'll take all those. Yes. I like them over there. >> He had a pet rat. The victim had a pet rat that resided in the living room in the sofa >> and it was apparently this gigantic albino rat. He lived in the sofa. running. >> Yes, I saw him running across the doorway and I was like, "Oh, hell no." >> Oh my. No, no, no, no. I would have been I would have been freaked out the entire time in that crime scene. I would have done my job. >> Guy melted in sofa. Fine. Rat and sofa. >> No, no, no, no. Rodents and reptiles. Mm-m. They freak me out. >> Don't like rats are so sweet, though. I used I used to have pet rats. I had I had a white rat and then I had hairless rats for a while. This was I mean when they're the size of a cat, >> there's something something disturbing about that. Like >> But it was definitely a pet. It wasn't just a >> No, it was his pet rat. Yeah, it was a bino rat and and literally I watched it and I was like, "Oh, oh, no, no, no, no." >> Yeah. >> You said, "I'm going to do the scavenger hunt part." >> Well, I was supposed to leave. I wasn't supposed to even do that. And then I ended up being there longer than they were at scene. >> But yeah, we literally had um public works out there. They were lifting drainage ditches and we were climbing down. Um, an old supervisor Anderson was like getting jumping down into those drainage ditches for me and you know he was taking the photos. We were searching for any additional evidence all the way down the street >> and stopping the garbage trucks, right? Cuz you said the garbage was out. >> Yeah, we Yeah, we shut down the roadway there. >> Yeah, I remember I remember with the fly through like there were just you could see the holes all over where the scanner was set, you know, it was crazy. >> That entire street. It's crazy. And it was even the one thing that also turned out to be important was one thing that we thought was the most minuscule. It was a little backpack >> and we thought, "Oh, we didn't even know if it was related." And it turned out the one girlfriend of one of the suspects was able to say, "Oh, yeah. That's where he put the gun >> when he left the apartment." >> And so, yeah. So, it was it was great. Yeah. So, all three we had trials on all three. And all three are That was one where they had to come in and airbrush the tattoos that he received. One of the suspects um had very bad tattoos added to his face and um we paid to have him airbrushed every day for trial >> to hide the tattoos. >> Yeah, man. >> So the jury didn't see him. >> Prejudice them against him if you have like a swastika on your forehead or something. >> Yeah. So they paid an airbrush artist to come in every day before trial and >> airbrush those. He had them on his, you know, above his eyebrows and on his cheeks and things like that. M >> and you said fly over. >> Yes. >> So it's the video. It's from um Pharaoh, right? >> Well, Leica at that time at the time. Okay. So, it documented the whole thing. >> So, we were able to, you know, stop at each of the because we had photo markers going all the way down the roadway. >> It was pretty wild. It was pretty wild. Actually, if we could track it down, we could maybe >> That's why I was thinking about it. >> If we could show everybody like what this >> Yeah. And I and I drive by that house every day cuz it's right around the corner from me. Not right around the corner, but it's it's down the street corner house. >> Yeah. >> Um >> and that's crazy cuz that wasn't who they suspected, you know, the whole entire time, you know. >> What do you mean they didn't suspect? >> They had somebody else they suspected. No, cuz he was he was known to let to take people in. >> Uhhuh. >> Um so he was known to take people in. He let this guy who was down and out on his luck and that guy lived with him for like three or four months. So I think he was the one wearing the full mask so that he wouldn't recognize him. But think about that. I mean you here you have a guy that's do helping somebody and then it comes back to bite him. >> Yeah. You know Yeah. It's horrible. >> Yeah. And all three of them in jail got prosecuted. >> All three. All right. Yep. >> I love a happy ending >> for sure. Um so you are the official what do they call it technically? Blood pattern analysis. Blood spatter. I don't want to. >> Yeah. I'm I'm one of them. Yeah. We have several um I probably have the most schooling. >> Um >> we don't say, but you're >> I am a senior person. Come on. I'm almost Yeah, I have a only a few people left see more senior than me. >> So talk talk to us about that because that's a really cool thing and it's a unique thing. >> It is. Some people I mean we see blood on a uh you know sometimes on a daily basis and um some people like it and some people don't. They just want to document it and be done with it. I love it. Like I said, even on a residential burglary, it's like, woo, blood. Um, so it is definitely a specialty or an area in our our division that um I was fortunate enough I had um two senior people. One of them was one of my trainers. Um and then and >> the one that went in the air conditioning when you had to work the >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Him. Um but then I had an interest from the time I started. So, I took every opportunity as possible. You know, those him and um Anna Cox were like the two blood people and Anna actually does that now for a living after she um retired from the agency. So, she has a business that um does that. So, I was fortunate. I always asked um you know, hey, can I go shadow? Can I go see this? Can I go help? And I volunt I multiple times I volunteered to do it on my own time. Of course, I was like told no, you know, we got to pay you to do this. Um, but we Anna and I had one that was one of the ones that I was out with her for a long time. Again, no air conditioning, >> of course. >> Um, abandoned house and it was she had been called in to assist St. Pete PD because St. Pete did not have or does not have a blood person. >> Um, and so she had been called out. It was a um a woman who had been bludgeoned um in the back room of an abandoned house. >> And um so Anna had worked it the first day um and I wasn't there. And then the second day when she had to go in and document all the spatter stains and the castoff all over, um I said, "Can I go? It was my day off, you know." And so they're like, "Absolutely." You know, well, I had to get authorization >> and um so, you know, I I was fortunate enough to to have that tutelage, you know, where they they um passed that along and they were happy to have somebody else that had an interest in it, too, because when you're the only one doing it, it can get to be, you know, >> it's a lot. >> Pretty tiresome. It's a lot. You're always the one that's called at 1:00 a.m. if there's >> Yes. And it it can take a large amount of time. I've had some, you know, a couple doozies recently, you know, and um >> none of them have gone to trial, but one it was just like >> I looked at the wall and I was like, where do I even begin? Because it was like fireworks. It was just so bad. >> Um and that was, you know, a a woman who had been bludgeoned by another family member. So, it's just horrible. Um, so you look at that and you're like, where do you start? You know, you just pick an area and you just go with it. But, uh, yeah, Anna and I were in there and I'll never forget because that's I mean, I've had suspects return to scenes. I was the specialist that was present when the one rolled through the homicide scene with the shotgun. >> Oh, that was that in Safety Harbor or something a couple years back? >> Yes. Yes, that was my scene. >> We're going to get to that. We're going to come back to that. I'm like, we have to That was a good one. >> Yeah. And um so in this instance, we were in this back room, no other way to get out, nowhere um abandoned house. And they suspected actually the neighbor that was right behind. So we could literally see his house, his little cracker box house from the window in the back room. And they thought it was him, too, cuz he had dug this big hole in the background. So they thought he was actually going to discard her body and put her in there. And I I it ended up not being him at all, but that's what they told us. So of course, we're in this house and we're like, crap, we got the suspect back here. we got to keep an eye on. He already dug a grave and you know and we're in this abandoned no air conditioned house. >> Oh, >> and so I'm in there with her in this back room and she goes, "Hey, can you go get me such and such?" And so I go to go walk back out the house and there's this guy in the house. And I'm like, "Uh, who are you?" And we're not armed because there's a misconception we're armed. I can whip you and hit you with a flashlight and a dead run, but we don't have any weapons. and he's in there in shorts and a t-shirt just walking around our crime scene and I was like and there was a St. Pete officer in the culde-sac like right in front of the house and I'm thinking how did this guy get in here without him seeing him >> and I'm like um who are you and what are you doing in our crime scene and Anna meanwhile hears my voice raise and the the discussion so she comes out and she's behind me and she's like >> and she used expletives I think I remember her going who the f are you know and then it turned out he was a major from St. PPD and it was he was just coming by and it was like okay heads up or announcement when you come in the door would have been a little nice because we didn't know who the heck he was. Right. Right. >> You know so yeah I've had suspects return. I had one in Penelis Park that climbed up to the second floor balcony and I'm looking for a casing and it's not his apartment. It had been a home invasion robbery and he'd been shot and I think he was there to get the drugs. Um, and he comes from the back bedroom and I'm like, "Oh." And my first thought is, "I can't let him get between me and the door." And I made my way out and then next thing you know, he disappears. >> So, I went to go get the officer because we're not on the same radio channels as them. >> Um, and yeah, I mean, freaky. So, yeah. So, with this um with the case that you're on with Anna, like what are you looking at? What are you what are you learning about the blood? >> Well, we're trying to confirm because we had a um in that instance, we had a landscaping brick that was there. So, is the landscaping brick and it had blood on it the weapon? >> Um and then how at that time it was like how many times do you think she was struck with that brick? Um, and of course I never saw her, so we just had the, you know, the blood and the on the ground as well as on the walls. So she's trying to differentiate how many castoff patterns she potentially has. >> And um, >> and that being when you're raising >> raising that brick. Yeah. Yeah. So you're just trying to, you know, see how many on average that you can document. And sometimes it's not whole lifts, it's, you know, just partial. But basically trying to preserve that crime scene and you know be able to go in and discuss that you know that this weapon was used and this is what it did. >> Was it um because you said they thought this is the same case I think that the guy was right there like just in the backyard >> turned out to not be him. >> Yeah. Did you guys have any >> like evidence to >> refute or >> Yeah. like did you have with the blood pattern stuff is there are you able to determine suspects and things like that >> in some in that case specific so St. Pete had investigated that crime scene in fact a couple other specialists were there when we were there and they were you know powder processing the walls and everything like that. It turned out that the actual attack started on the front porch. Um they ended up finding a piece of wood where he bludgeoned her initially with a 2x4. So they ended up finding that because our main focus was just the blood and the patterns that we were seeing in the back room. So yeah. So and I think they ended up getting prints off that board. The brick at the time and even DNA has advanced since I started doing this because yeah, we might have swapped the brick, but now we have the MVAC and we could have, you know, done more with the and it was a red um it was like one of those red um colored landscaping bricks. So >> and the MVAC is essentially like like a shopvac, like a wedge. It uses liquid to flush the DNA out. Sucks it all up. >> Sucks it up. It's like a wet dry vac or Yeah, like a like a carpet cleaner. >> So, with the with the blood pattern analysis, like what all obviously with with that case, you knew what the weapon was and whatever, how much can that tell you? What can it tell you? >> Yeah, >> it depends on the each individual scene because sometimes it can give you an indication of what type of weapon you might be looking for based on the blood that you're seeing. >> Right. If you don't have the weapon, >> it can also refute or um confirm statements of I was here, I was there, I was the, you know, here, there, or the other. I've had one where it was it was a simple it came out as a shooting and the guy was claiming that he was shot in the roadway in a driveby and didn't know who shot him, but yet the bullet wound was to the top of his foot. So, that was one clue. >> Um, and then the second clue, it turned out he was um a convicted felon, not supposed to be in possession of a firearm. There's there it is. >> And yeah, and so he was trying to make it sound like somebody shot him instead of himself. >> Um because he didn't want to place that gun in his own hands. Um and it was also a stolen gun. >> Um >> he's got it all going for him. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when I find a defect in the floor in and he bled, I mean, God bless him. He bled all throughout the residence. He walked all throughout bathroom. You know, you name it, he walked it. >> Trying to figure out his lie. And um and I get in, you know, and I'm I'm following the blood cuz I'm trying to watch his, you know, okay, where did he go? What did he do? And then I see the defect in the floor. So now I got a defect, possible bullet defect in the tile floor. >> Um oh, and lo and behold, I find the casing behind the door. And this is in the laundry room at the back of the house. Um but then when he, you know, and meanwhile, the detective had already come and gone to my scene. So the detective was at the hospital talking to him, believing the whole entire time it's a Yeah. So then I was able to call the detective and go, "Okay, he's full of crap. Um, he did not get shot by anybody. Um, I have a bullet defect. I have a casing inside the residence. So either he shot himself or somebody in the residence shot him >> and um, and then they asked him where the gun was. Um, cuz deputies couldn't find the gun and he told them he threw it out in the backyard. Now mind you, the grass was up to the waist and there was like mattresses and trash and literally I was like, "He's lying again." And there and and the deputies are like, "How do you know this?" And I'm like, "Okay, he had to have opened the back door, stepped out onto the back stoop, and thrown this gun. There is no blood anywhere past this point in the residence. He's lying." >> You guys want to search back there, by all means, go ahead. But that's not where the gun is. >> And then we were able to go back through, found it. Um, and his roommate wasn't cooperating. His roommate was like, "Will you?" And then finally the roommate because sometimes I'm like, you know, come on guy, you know where this is. >> And um he's like, you might want to search this room. >> And they had already searched that room. >> And there was this big pile of clothing. They'd already searched supposedly that big pile of clothing. And I said, "Well, we're going to search it again." We go back in there and u myself and one of the other deputies found it underneath at the bottom of the pile of clothing. >> So the gun was right there that entire time. So, I was able to say, "No, he did not get shoot in a driveby. >> No, he did not throw the gun in the backyard." And, uh, yeah, it's somewhere in this house. So, you know, stupid stuff like that. And because he's looking at doing 30 years for being in possession of fire, >> right? Yeah. >> So, when you when you walk onto a scene and you see all the blood and then you start to analyze it, is it more of a science or is it more an art? I mean, do do you look and you're like creating the story as you as you visually look at it or are there lots of measurements and things involved? It's it's a combination of both, okay? You know, because sometimes um we see blood in scenes um and somebody else doesn't and the blood can sometimes, like I said, in that instance, it can tell me the story. >> Um so it can, like I said, it can refute or confirm statements. So when you have blood present in certain areas that you shouldn't have, um or they're going in a direction that they shouldn't be, um that's all key. You also want to even look for blood. Like say I have blood all in one area of residence and then lo and behold near the exit I have like three drops. >> Whose blood is that going to be? That's important. So the oddities of the blood are also very very important because that could be the suspect's blood and he's injured himself in some way and we've had that occur as well. >> Um it could even be just telling us which way he went. So yeah, there are scientific we take measurements and things like that and we can tell where in space that that blood originated from and that's called our area of convergence, you know, um or area of origin and it'll all come back to one central location. And um you know, like I said, it it could be the size of a basketball, but is it a basketball that's important at floor level or is it a basketball at standing level? I've had my very first case um was, you know, we went to trial and I'm literally we had no trial prep and an hour before I'm to get on the stand. I'm like, "This is a blood case." They never trial prep me. They never asked me. You know, I had very little knowledge, but I'm like, "This guy was shot when he was on the floor. He wasn't standing up." >> And um so little things like that. You know, if somebody says they were coming at you and they were forced to shoot you and your blood's all down on the ground, >> I got a little bit of a problem with that because that means they weren't in an upright position, >> right? >> So, they couldn't have been coming at you like my one in in Gulfport. It was, you know, he was coming at me with a chair over his head and was kind of and I had to shoot him. >> Now, you touched on a little bit as far as the dynamic working with detectives on a scene and talking about, you know, what you think happened versus whatever. Has there ever been an instance where you're looking at this case, it doesn't have to be blood related to, but it's any case, and you're looking at this case and you just feel like the detectives are just absolutely running in the wrong direction. >> I don't think I've ever had one because we have a good working relationship. Even our outside agency detectives, you know, we have >> they're asking you what you think. They're asking >> Yeah. And they do they do rely on our expertise or I find I mean I know and I've developed that relationship with them because I've been here for 20 plus years but I've even had >> majors and lieutenants and all that from other agencies like say Clearwater and they're like oh Murphy's on this scene. I don't have to come babysit the scene and they told me they were on their way and I'm like where are you? And they're like oh you're there. We know we know you're going to do a toz. They don't have to babysit me. Um, which is nice because that to me is the biggest compliment anybody can give you in in our line of work is that they trust you to know that you're not going to you're not going to cut corners. You're not going to take shortcuts. You're not going to you know what needs to be done and they can rely on you to do it. They should not have to tell us what to do. We're the we're the subject matter. >> Right. It's your job. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Well, I mean another pretty high compliment was being the 2024 forensic science specialist of the year. That happened last year. That was pretty cool. Complete surprise >> and that was which is means that they got you good. Um that was that was based on a couple cases, right? >> They had called me in on multiple blood cases and yeah so they had um they had called me in one I had just finished working one >> and um and they called me in or I was coming in to work and one of them was like hey can you meet us at the SAB? We need you to look at some photos. >> Sheriff's administration building. >> Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. Abs, you know, we we use these acronyms and we think everybody knows what we mean. Right. Right. Um so yeah, so they they called me in and they're like, "Hey, can you come, you know, come here?" And on as I'm driving, I'm trying to look at these photos, you know. Um and then so yeah, so I've had those I've had where I've worked all day and um and then I've even had our previous manager when we had a manager um and he's been like, "Hey, um this county needs somebody to come to take a look at this blood." and they don't have anybody and they literally had their oldest crime scene tech had four years of experience. >> So yeah, and I was working with two, one had only been there four months and the other had been there just a year. So and just how we do things differently, you know, that case probably would have been that the evidence probably would have been lost if we had not gone out there because their prior practices was to process the body at the morg. >> Oh. >> Um and they just bag the hands and they take the body to the morg. I get there and I'm like, "Oh, no, no, no, Grasshopper." You know, we need to You're gonna lose this evidence. You She's already like two days into decomposition. You're gonna lose this when you put her in the body bag. >> Swab this, swab that, lay, collect her clothing, lay it out, put it on trace paper. And they're like, "What are you talking about? What's trace paper?" >> Yeah. What is trace paper? Not like tracing paper. >> Well, no, no, it's so it's we have large rolls of like butcher block paper would be another way of describing it, and we call that trace paper. Um, so it's like you lay that out as you proceed in, especially if it's a who done it because you and you walk only in those areas. Got it. And likewise when you're collecting the evidence, you're you're you're laying that clothing because she had blood spatter on her in that instance with the AOA that I did. So I literally worked all day. I said, "By the end of this, I'll have it down." Um, yeah. So we assisted um them and and they had a sergeant. They had a patrol sergeant was in charge of their unit. Nobody with prior experience. Um, and he just knew he like phoned a friend and is like, "Hey, can you send somebody out? I heard you guys have this." >> Um, and so Tony Anderson accompanied me at the time and he um scanned it for them. They didn't have a 3D scanner. And then I went out there to help them um with what they should process, what they should collect, and then um documenting the blood. >> Um and that was a successful prosecution, too. Um, so luckily I didn't end up having to go up there, but um, yeah, they um, they were able the DNA came back on her clothing um, and on her face and neck. So if they had put her in that body bag, who knows what would have happened. >> Did you say what what had happened to her? >> Well, they initially brought me up there because they were like they weren't sure if it was suicide or homicide. Um, but I'm going with when somebody's been stabbed multiple times. And mind you, we have had people stab themselves to death and commit suicide, like stab themselves in the heart or in the cut their necks, that type of thing. So, I can't say that hasn't happened, but when you got like five stab wounds and no knife present, um, that's usually a clue, too. So, yeah. So, she had been um she had been attacked by um a neighbor's child that she had befriended and was trying to help uh learn how to paint and and she lived in an isolated wooded area too. So, that was my other suggestion to them is we didn't know where the mur murder weapon was and up in that in that part of the county like she burned her trash. So, um I was like you need to upon daylight get explorers, other recruits, that type of thing. do a grid search, see if you can find potentially the weapon. Search through the burn pile, you know, and see. I don't know if they ever recovered the weapon in that instance, >> but yeah, she had multiple stab wounds to her face and neck, and I'm like, yeah, I'm not I'm going to go with no. One one stab wound would have been enough for me to go, this is probably not the way to do it. >> When you say a child, you'd be a child. Child >> teenager. Yeah, like I think he was 17, 18 maybe at the most. Yeah, young kid. >> Wow. The older I get, the younger they seem. >> Yeah. >> Uh so go back to the the Safety Harbor case where the uh they rolled back up because that was pretty exciting. >> It Well, I'm glad you think it was exciting. Yeah. At the time I was going through it. Um >> Yeah. Just walk us through the case just briefly just what it was. Well, so we had um a subject who had murdered his mother with a shotgun and he had called a family friend out of state and told them that he had done this and um he actually committed two homicides because he ended up killing his um his uh sponsor, his drug sponsor in Clearwater as well. So we ended up finding that gentleman and I worked that scene as well. Um so he shot his mother and drove away and um I get the call, you know, hey, we got the scene, you know, that type of thing. Um got search warrant, you know, we need you to respond. And um this the one of the detectives had said to me, hey, we don't have him in custody and his phone is pinging nearby. Um but uh so so we want to make sure you drive into the secured area that we have. I was like, "Okay, no problem." So, this was while I was already on on my way. So, I called the other specialist that was responding with me because she was behind me and I said, "Hey, they just called me. They told me he's not um in custody. They don't know where he is. He drove away from the scene and his phone's pinging nearby. So, they have a secure area, so we need to enter and drive into the scene completely with our vehicles." And and I and she asked me, "Can I go back and get my ballistic vest?" And I said, "Absolutely." So, she turned around, went back and got her ballistic vest. I have mine in my vehicle. Did not have it on. Um and I drove to the scene. We assumed we were secure inside the scene area and we were we had been told they were looking for one vehicle >> and we're in the middle of having our briefing and I'll never forget because one of my lieutenants who wasn't my lieutenant at the time was standing right beside me and we're sitting there in the street. We were in the street using one of the fronts of the cruiser to, you know, do our briefing. And they had just found out, literally, not even 5 minutes before, that the vehicle that they'd been looking for this entire time had been totaled in a car accident a couple weeks before and he had purchased another vehicle. So the the friend was like, "Oh, no, he's not driving that type of car. He's driving a Volkswagen, I don't know, Jetta or whatever now." And we're like, "Okay." So now they got to repost the bolo and literally I kid you not it was like two minutes and all of a sudden I hear these screeching tires and I look and here come I see the Volkswagen emblem and I'm like oh crap and it was like scattered car, you know, everybody went everywhere. Um the detectives, some of them did, you know, they had their guns on their hips, that type of thing. And I and I'm looking because everybody was like take cover. And I'm like, where the heck do I take cover? Because I was in literally in the middle of the street. I look over, there's a mailbox because I would have hid behind the mailbox, but it's on a pedestal. So then my feet would have been showing. So I was like, and I knew I didn't have enough time to run to get behind a building because it was a great distance away. So I was like, what do I do? So I dropped to the ground be beside one of the cruisers because he's coming down the roadway. And I thought if I can see his tires, I know where he's proceeding. >> Mhm. >> But at the same respect, if he made a turn at that intersection in front of me, which would be to his mother's condo where her body was, then I would be now back out in the open. So, I had the other specialist with me and she's like latched on to me and and I'm on the ground and she's on top of me and and and I look and I Sarah Robinson um happened to turn around and see us and realized we had no coverage >> and so she stayed with us. She had her gun out and she's like and she put her hand and said, "Stay behind me." They kept trying to tell me to go to the front of the car and I was like, why am I going to go to the front where he is? I'm like, that's what I'm thinking. But unbeknownst to me, they were wanting me to get more behind the engine block. >> But I'm thinking, but that's the way he's going is towards the front. I don't want to get >> and they stopped him right there in the street. And >> so, so I saw his wheels roll by and then that's when I said, "Let's move." And we got we got up and moved to the back um bumper area. And then I knew they have the the the um metal lock boxes in there >> and of course the engine is in the front. So I ducked down and I said to her, "Let's get down." And I literally had my fingers on the bumper and then I hear the gunfire exchange and I remember yelling, "Oh shit." And um >> seems reasonable. >> Yes. Yes. And I'm just I mean I have my fingers dug into this bumper and just eyes closed and I was like, "Okay, once um the shooting stops, I can get up." And then I was like I was waiting and then Sarah's like, "Okay." And um they uh he had raised the shotgun to um the deputies and deputy Wedi. I think Deputy Wedi got an award for that as well. >> Was it was like 20 What year was that? Like 22 20 I don't know. It all runs together for me. >> Yeah. But he he was the one who took the shot. And um and it was funny because earlier that evening when they wanted him to go >> watch the tapping by the way. I'm sorry. You're good. It's okay. when they wanted him to watch the um the residence. He was crime scene. He was in charge of the crime scene log at the at the front door of the residence and uh he went and got his shotgun >> and they're like, "Why are you bringing the shot?" He goes, "He's armed with a shotgun. I ain't going to be standing at this door with my handgun." So, luckily, he had it on his person when all that was occurring. But yeah, >> weedy did. >> Oh, okay. >> Is he he's a sniper? Is he a sniper? Uh >> I've seen several deputies that if they weren't snipers, they should have been. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. That was I remember that cuz I remember um I remember I think we were watching that call. Uh because it was during the day. It was like an afternoon. I remember we were watching the call and then it was like, oh, the guy showed back up on scenes. There was something about him like, oh my gosh. >> I think this had to be before me. So before 21. >> Before me, too. It may have been. >> Yeah. It all, like I said, it runs together. >> Years fly. a couple years ago and it's like oh that oh yeah 2020 was five years ago. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that was I would say that was the the first time any of us had been exposed to anything like that where we were in the direct line of fire and um >> the bad thing was is my parents were talking about it and they had my young child at the time. They were babysitting for him. >> And it was a good two months before he would not have a screaming fit for me to exit the house because he was afraid for me. He's like, "You're going to get killed." And I I tried to express to him that, you know, deputies are there with us. They stay with us. They're armed. They will make sure mommy is okay. Right. >> Um and he was littleer then, too. So, yeah, it was um it it took a And then my mom, I was like, "What were you thinking?" She's like, "I he was watching TV. I didn't think he was listening. They soak up all that. They sure do. Yeah. So, yeah, it was um it was a doozy. It took Yeah, >> it was not something I want to relive again >> for sure. >> So, um you I think we it's well established you guys see some stuff and you deal with some stuff and you handle it in the moment and and I think I think you're spot on. If you don't have some kind of reaction, it's time to, you know, whatever. But, you know, you can't unsee things. That stuff doesn't go away. So, how do you, you know, how do you do it? And what is your advice to other people that are either in it and might be struggling or, you know, um are coming into it and and have an interest? Like, how do you what's how do you handle it? >> I think it's great that the agency recognizes um it more so the mental health and the PTSD that obviously we suffer. >> Um so, that's nice because when we started it was, you know, I think Lori, even when you were a deputy at the time, you you suck it up. you suck it up and you finish your job and we do have to suck it up and finish our job. >> It um >> but then there's afterwards. >> It's afterwards and sometimes you don't know when those triggers are going to happen. I worked the Jordan Bellow case too, the little little boy. Again, children tend to be my my issues. >> Refresh my memory about that case. >> That was the one that was killed by his mom. Um, and she said he walked off he somebody kidnapped him in the Largo Central Park >> and he was a like he was in the DCF system and then he got given back to her. >> Um, so I worked his recovery location and I had never been to that park before in my life. Um, >> and I entered from I didn't realize there's two ways to enter into that park either. Um, and then in my own personal time, my son had a baseball tournament >> and we went to that park because I entered the park from Albertton area. >> Um, when my husband was driving us to the park, we entered it from the backside, which is actually where we recovered um, little baby Jordan. And the moment I pulled into that park, I had an immediate reaction >> and I knew where I was. And my husband is ex law enforcement, so of course I can talk to him in some code. And I was like, "Honey, I'm having a problem." And he's like, "What?" And I said, "This is where um this park is where we had the signal five." And so he knew I was talking about a homicide. And um I need a moment. And I and I said, "The baby Jordan." And then he knew instantly. Of course, my son in the background is going, "What's going on? What's going on, mommy? What's what are you talking about? What are you you know?" And I was like, "I just need to I I need to make a phone call." And um my husband was like, "Come on. and we're going to go to the ball fields and we're going to leave mommy in the car, you know. So, I reached out to one of the other assistant supervisors that had been working that scene with me that night >> and I said, "You're never going to believe where I am." And I had never never been to that park before um and haven't been since either. >> Um >> so that was uh you know it was it was phone a friend you know so you never quite know you know when it's gonna you're going to be reminded about something. Um, and just reaching out. We luckily us in forensics, we've learned how to take care of ourselves because we never had anybody that really remembered us. >> Mhm. >> Um, you know, I can't tell you how, you know, we worked the um Charles Conduct case and nobody thought about forensics. You know, the um, you know, Michael Maggley, the concentration wasn't on forensics and what we had to deal with. So, um, now more so it's more in the forefront and and I think that's a great, you know, program. And they checked with me on this past weekend. We worked a a very tragic, um, scene. I worked a very tragic scene. And I had, um, some SISM members reach out. >> Critical incident stress management >> critical. Yes. >> It's a it's a it's a fear a fear a fear support group for >> just Yes. Just to make sure I was okay and that my members were doing okay. So, um, but yeah, we do we touch in with each other. Um, you know, we we Maggley's the anniversary of Magley's death, we had a dinner and we had um several individuals from our critical incident um team come and h partake in that meal with us, you know. So, um yeah, >> you know, the peer stuff is important because they >> they know >> get it. >> They know they know where we're coming from. >> Yeah. and what we see because unfortunately just when you think you've seen the worst that another human could do to another human, somebody's got to trump >> them, >> you know, one up them, >> and so for for somebody cuz there's obviously I mean and you touched on I mean there's this fascination with forensic science and all this stuff and you have people, you know, that have a whole new generation of CSIs and different shows to watch and maybe they want to do it and it's career and it's whatever. So what do you have to say to them? like what how do what do they need to do to be successful to you know what does it take to be a good forensic scientist and also touch on the the emotional piece too like what what do they need to be what kind of person is it >> I think um and we tell this to people I I I have a lot of people that sometimes will ask me what they think good qualities and and must haves I didn't realize till I had one recruit um when I was because I was a training officer too that you have to have that investigative gene like It has to be embedded in you. You can teach somebody a lot of things, but when you don't have somebody that's a questioner or like, you know, like we don't look at evidence the same way or we don't like I could look at a car window and see prints on it and and you're like, it's a car window, you know, things like that. Um, >> and have you people who just don't get it? They just >> are. We had I mean I had one recruit that uh she literally would be standing on the evidence and it just was not clicking. Um, and and sometime you can teach some or or they're going to be your basic specialists that are going to do the everyday calls and be very good at the everyday calls, but when you have to think outside the box, they're not going to be your go-to. >> Um, >> you got to have all that >> highly detail oriented, >> very detail oriented, being able to multitask, being able to think ahead. And those are probably the three most, you know, multitasker, detail oriented, and can think outside the box because there's some people that want to go A, B, and C, but when you throw in D and make that first, that like gets them all discombobulated. We're done. >> And yeah, and you can't be that way. Um, in in I think in any field in law enforcement, I think you have to be pretty much, you know, an outside the box thinker. How can I fix this? How can I, you know, come up with another way of doing something? or just looking at, you know, if I were a suspect, what would I touch? What would I do? How would I get in? I'd make a horrible burglar because I don't think I could break into things as quick as they do. But >> and besides the like, you know, you it's also a pretty physical job. >> Very physical. I have torn my ACL on a scene and my meniscus, I have fractured my wrist on a scene. So, you just never most of us sustain knee injuries because it is physical. >> Yeah. And that's I mean CSI, did you notice they never get dirty? >> Never. >> And they drive Hummers and they wear, you know, CSI Miami in Florida used to wear white linen suits. Come on. >> Um and heels. >> I can hardly walk in my boots after 12 hours. So yeah, I used to always joke that my van was a Hummer in disguise, you know. Yeah. So no, if you don't if you're not covered in dirt, you're not sweating, you're not, you know. Yeah, that's and people always comment on our uniforms cuz they're black and heavy and it's like that's our protection. >> Plus, we'd be covered in black, you know. I loved it when the deputies went from the uh white t-shirt, the white shirts. I used to have to do my husband's shirts. >> I would la I would pay to launder those. That wasn't that was a excusable expense when we were a budget was tight because I hated those white shirts. So, >> you showed everything. >> So, yeah. So, no, it's it's very detail- oriented, very physical. People don't realize how physical our job really is. We're in tight spaces, crawling in holes, crawling under houses, you know, going up ladders, suspended from, you know, a ladder truck on, you know, you got a fear of heights. You better get over it. >> Yeah. Not not the job for you, huh? >> No. No. And then in the goop and gore, I mean, having to put your fingers in somebody's vomit or somebody's blood and coagulated blood and and looking for that bullet, you know, you got to do it. >> It's part of >> Touch the M. >> Touch the Touch the M. >> Yes. Among Us. It's all Among Us. >> Yeah. I like it. That's That's the That's it. >> What else you guys got? >> So, do you guys pro So, you guys do process like drowning victims and things like that. And we've learned from um the marine deputies that like >> basically almost immediately like little vermin little crabs like will much like the bugs that you don't like. Yeah. They go for those eyes, lips, they love your lips. >> Um eyes, lips. Um if you're um >> if you're heavy, I mean obviously a heavier person going in the water, your organs and all that, they you bloat and >> Yeah. >> You're not pretty. That's not a good autopsy, too. >> But if you're like if So if someone was shot and they fell in the water >> Mhm. >> and then you know I I don't know how long this would take or anything, but is there potential that eventually that evidence could be eaten? like >> well you got the bullet hole itself on the flesh that might have been eaten but there might be a bone defect you know they hit the vertebrae they hit you know your sternum they hit something a bullet went traveled through that area that's going to be your your skull I mean if you got a bullet hole in the skull you got and no flesh left you got some spleening to do you know yeah and I tease deputies with that too if I get their prints on scene because you know how many times they tell you don't touch anything and I'm like an eye dent's an explain and why your prints are there. >> They uh they probably mess up evidence. Well, maybe not mess up, but they I don't know, contaminate evidence a little bit. >> We call them sometime ERT, like paramedics and firemen and deputies, evidence eradication team. Um yeah, but the bad thing is the ones that kill us is when it's like, say it's a homicide scene or it's a weird death scene. I mean, because we've had some weird ones and they're natural. um how many times how many people have to go in to see >> and they don't realize that >> every time >> every time they're going in that we have that low cards exchange principle you enter a scene and you leave a scene you leave a bit little bit of yourself behind and you take a little bit of that away we've had them you know I had one um >> one person put the shotgun shell in their pants pocket and you know I'm like what were you >> what were you thinking so You know, little things like that, you know, they don't um >> they're not thinking that way. >> No. And and then I love it when they tell us like say they pick up the gun or they pick up something and they're like, "Oh, I'm going to put it back or I put it back." >> No. Or they want to put it back. And I'm like, "Absolutely not. You are not doing that." You know, so we can explain that it has been moved and that it's not in its original position, but don't go try putting it back in. Well, I can put it back in the exact location. I guarantee you you are not putting it back in the exact location. Right. Yeah. Just don't bother. >> No, no, no. And we've had other agencies, like contract agencies where somebody's like literally driven away from the scene and forgot they put the gun in the the trunk of their car, >> you know. So then we're like, uh, where's the firearm? And then, oh, they went home, you know. So, yeah, that's been years ago. We don't have it as much. >> I mean, the only good news to that is that, you know, the technology is such the different things. I mean, the the knives and stuff is unbelievable. >> Um, I'm going to let >> That's basically fingerprinting the gun. I'm going to let you do the acronym. >> We didn't even do touch DNA until 2012. >> Something. >> Yeah. >> You know, that's come about in my career. That whole concept of touch DNA, you know, and how we collect stuff and what we swab. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's wild. >> I mean, we used to have to have like a whole vial of blood, you know, God bless OJ Simpson. >> Yeah. >> Um and to now it's the tip of a pin. It's two alil cells, two skin cells, >> you know, that's how sensitive it is. What's your what's your favorite personal uh piece of forensic technology or your favorite process? >> I've always I love the dye staining. So I mean and you know tell us about that. >> Yeah. So I like to superglue or cyanoacrylate fume things and then apply the dye stain because back in the day it was just powders and you powder something. You super glue it and you powder it. Well, first you didn't even have to super glue it to powder it, but some people do. And then you get nothing or very minimal and then you add the dye stain and it lights up like a Christmas tree of prints and it's like, wow, you know, just in the, you know, my time and and just even like I said, the advancement in technology with the DNA, it's just been I I can only imagine where it goes. >> Yeah. >> So, I've got one last things. Um, you I believe you said that like a lot of times you don't get to see or find out how a case ends or and you're seeing a lot of, you know, really terrible things honestly. Um, and like what is your what is your drive for doing this job? like the blood stuff and everything is really cool, but I assume that there's some sort of gratification in knowing what you're >> I have a saying and I try and tell it to all even if they're my recruits or other members um of my shift, I want to be able to put my head down on my pillow every night and know that regardless of the scene, I mean, I have members that get frustrated with um you know, unlocked vehicle burgies because they're like, "Well, if somebody's stupid enough to leave their car unlocked, why am I going out and processing it?" But even in those instances, that's our job. Not not only is it just a job, but I mean, you get them in the small crimes, they're going to work themselves way, you know, up to the bigger crimes. But be able to put your head down on their pillow every night and know that you did the darnest best job you could do for the victim. And even if the victim's a scumbag, you know, or doesn't appreciate anything that you did, do the best job that you can do for those victims because you're their voice. you're there. You know, I I I love it. I had um and he actually one of the family members of the Penelis Park homicide that we were talking about the fisherman. >> One of his cousins actually works for our agency and that is one where I would tell you he he kept hoping to meet me because he knew from talking to the Penelis Park detectives that that fingerprint was the first lead in the processing that we did on and the evidence that we collected throughout my scavenger hunt. >> And I happen to be he was a detention Jeopardy at the time. He now actually works in patrol >> and I was over going to the jail for another incident with DIU and he happened to be the one to escort me in the Sallyport and he's he's like doing this dodging trying to look at my jacket you know and he's like and I'm I'm like looking at him I'm like what the heck's going on with you. Why are you like and I and he goes I'm trying to see your I was like what's what's going on? And he's like I'm trying to see your name. And I was like oh it's Murphy. And he's like I've been wanting to meet you. And he goes, "My family has been wanting, you know, I've been hoping to run into you." And he said, "My uncle was the one that was killed in that homicide." And he said, "We want to thank you for the job that you did." That's what keeps you going. Because you don't always get those thank yous. And you don't always get the praise and you don't always get specialist of the year, but that's like that's what keeps you going is that one time when somebody's going to say, "Thank you for the job that you do." I on this most recent weekend too that just the family was like I'm sorry you had to see this you know and recognizing that the job that we do is important and it's tough. >> Yeah for sure. >> Yeah that's definitely >> those are what keep you going every day. It's just that simple thank you. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> It seems it seems silly but it it's really that that's all it takes. >> That's all it takes. Write that letter into the sheriff. You know, I mean, even deputies, they appreciate receiving that adab boy letter in their personnel file or just letting you know and people, you know, people take all >> it's a simple thing. >> Yeah. And they take it all for granted. >> Email, you know, whatever. Yeah, it is hard. And that's because like I said, we see most everybody on the either their worst day and that's what I tell my members too. That vehicle burglary, you think they're the stupidest person for leaving their car unlocked, but that may be the first time they're ever a victim of a crime, right? And to them, that's the worst day they're having. >> Yeah. It's not a great feeling. >> No. >> So, um, we talked about a lot of dark stuff, but what do you do for fun in your spare time to to just >> other than take your husband out on the road and >> apparently not enough. I don't take him out enough. Um, you know, I they have a name they call me in my unit. It's either and I think they said it maybe on my my um >> your video for your special. So, they call me Martha Murphy or mom Mama Murphy. Um, I love to I love to cook. I love to bake. I make a lot of cakes, retirement cakes for different deputies and things like that. And sometimes when it's a fundraiser for somebody who's died in the line of duty or, >> you know, um, even not in the line of duty, we've had several deputies die prematurely. True. Um, so we've had fundraisers for them. Um, so I I like to do that kind of volunteer work. >> Yeah. >> And and do that stuff. So I love to cook and bake and create and so Yeah. So it was, you know, it's funny because I they call me Martha. I've had a I had a homicide detective who's retired with our agency and uh we were working a scene and um they kept saying Martha, Martha. And I respond to it. That's the scary thing. And he's like, "Hey Lisa, what's your middle name?" And I tell him and he's like, "Why are they calling you Martha?" And I was like, he's like, "That's not even your name. Don't they know your name?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah. It's Martha. Martha Stewart." Yeah, they call. Because I'm also the ingenious one. I I'm the outside the box thinker. I'll like, you know, >> tape together dow uh um cuticle sticks to make a dowo rod when we don't have something that will fit through a hole. I'm like a maggyver. >> That's what I was about to say, >> Mr. Toolman. >> So, what's your favorite thing to make? What's your best thing? >> Well, apparently I'm known for my banana bread. And I know I owe you guys banana bread. >> I was going to I was getting there, but you now you do for sure. So that's it. That's a banana bread >> apparently. Yeah, that's my my go-to. >> Good stuff. >> Yeah, >> good stuff. Well, Lisa, we really appreciate you taking the time. I know we we had to reschedule a couple times to make this happen, but other things come up. As you know, >> I was afraid to do this, so this has been >> But you had fun. You had a great time. >> I did. It was fun. I'll tell everybody I know now it's not that bad. >> Yeah, exactly. So, the the last thing the last thing we ask of you is um you know, we always give everybody, hey, what's what's something that you want the public to know >> about your doors? >> Here it is. >> Tell your family, friends, co-workers, loved ones, lock your doors. >> You heard it. >> I had I had an epiphany today. I realized that people must actually like having their cars broken into because there is so much messing. There's no way they could not do they have to be doing it on purpose because they enjoy it. I can't explain it, but I can't see any other other >> When I was on day shift, I had one um victim in Seminal that had been burglarized the one time and literally like two months later he got burglarized again and he was worried. He he was, you know, I was the first responder and then I pull up and it's his house again >> and he's like, I was hoping it was not you because I knew you knew I was stupid enough to do it the first time and now I did it again. He goes, but this time it wasn't my fault. It was my daughter or something. I said, "You know, next time you're wanting to give away like iPads and, you know, just I won't damage anything. Just just give it to me." Like, I don't I don't get it. I don't I don't know how many times the sheriff can make a public service message >> and tell people to to lock your doors. I mean, and it you know what? If you're not going to lock your door, then please please please do not leave a firearm in there. Mhm. >> I get more angry about that because I know Officer Conduct was killed with a firearm that was stolen in an unlocked vehicle burglary. And I can't tell you how many times people do not know the serial number to their firearm. Please record that somewhere because the sooner they're not going to pawn that firearm, >> it's worth more on the street, >> right? >> And it's going to be used in the next crime, you know? And I get it. We're in Florida. You're going to run in. I think some of those remote keyless entries and all that you especially guys, you shove it in your pocket, you probably unlocked it not realizing you did something. Um, yeah, you have kids that play with the remote and unlock it from inside the household. I mean, all those things can happen. I get it. But >> it just takes two seconds and they're in and out. >> And when they find that firearm, >> they're they're splitting. Yeah, they got that gun. >> That's a night we're we're going to pack it in. >> Yeah. >> It's good stuff. And and and that was I like that spin. That's the talk about the firearm stuff. You know, we get we get to lock your doors, but the firearm stuff is is super >> I don't care if your sunglasses were stolen. >> Yeah. If you want to leave your car unlocked and just make a donation to society and you leave some money in there for them, sure take your guns inside. >> Yeah. >> No. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. >> And why have five magazines extra and boxes of ammo? >> Where are you going? >> What are you going to get one? Sometimes we've had up to three in a car, you know? I'm like, geez Louise. >> Well, I got two hands. um the gunshine state. >> All right. Well, Lisa, thank you again for spending some time with us. This was a blast. We got into all the things we wanted to talk about. Um Laura, uh if you are listening to this podcast and you want to give us feedback or contact us in some way, how would they go about doing that? >> Well, you could email us at let's 56pcset.com. That's ls56pcset.com. or we're on Instagram, which is the handle uh 56Podcast, all spelled out on Instagram. So, you can reach out to us there. Give us feedback on episodes, guests, things you want to hear about. Uh we'll be looking forward to it. Thanks everybody for listening. [Music]