You're saying that if there are other items in there. >> On May 26th, [music] 2023 officers, >> New Jersey arrested a woman at a mall in store [music] surveillance showing her concealed neck then past. We're looking for you. All right. So, you're expecting that that Chanel you and Chanel today? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Necklace. It's like a necklace. We got footage of it happening today. Exactly what you're wearing. Exact description. Glasses, everything. Do you have the item on you stole? >> I don't have glasses. >> You're wearing glasses? >> Yeah. But do you have the item you stole from Chanel? We have footage of it, man. He knows you've been looking for you. >> All right. That's all right. Where So, where's the item from uh Chanel? We have footage of it. You You understand that you're caught now? Um I read your rights. Her jeans? >> Yeah. >> You have the receipt, right? >> Where'd you purchase them from? >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Where'd you purchase these from today? >> Not today. Not today. >> You walked in with these with the tags on. >> I'm sorry. >> You walked in with these? >> Yeah, because I had to change [music] the size. >> You said you bought them from the windows or they have more tag on. >> I'm sorry. All right. Well, we'll check Nordstrom today. >> All right. Well, we're going to run that up by Nordstrom. You could either choose to be honest with us, tell us what you took today, if you happen to take other items, or you could choose not to be honest, and there could be some additional charges. You can make it easy or hard on yourself, ma'am. Okay. Honesty. We appreciate honesty. We'll be honest with you. We'll tell you everything that's going on. We'll be polite to you and courtesies with you, but you obviously stole some items today. you have on footage you stealing some items today. We want to know if you stole anything else today. >> I'm sorry. >> There's a necklace in this purse. >> I don't have a necklace. >> I don't have a necklace. Good idea. >> Yes. You drive here today? >> Yes. We have your name. We have all your information. We're we're well aware who you are, ma'am. We're going to search your belongings. Um, anything that you cannot provide a receipt to, uh, we can be potentially be taking it. Bra 7 dispatch. Uh, can you run a New Jersey all around whiskey? >> [music] >> We will have a female matron come to police headquarters to search you as well if you have it on your persons. So, are you going to be honest with us? Tell us where you put it. We have footage to your car. >> Yeah. Where's your car parked? We're going to if you uh we're going to look for your car as well, ma'am. We're going to track you down and we're going to watch the footage. We're going to if you put into your car already, we we could potentially take your your vehicle as well. Get a search warrant for that. Okay. So, honesty is going to help. All right. So, what other items does she have? Anything else? She put it in the bag. She keeps like she put it in one of her pockets. You have pockets in your dress, ma'am? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes, ma'am. When I was handcuffing you, I do your rights. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> You don't have to if you don't want to. >> You're familiar with this. You were you were just arrested a week ago in panas. You've been arrested a couple times before. We know that. I know. So, this is nothing new to you, right? You got pockets, you said. >> Yes. Where's the pockets? Point where the pockets are. You open up the other box for me. All right. You also mention that I could. >> Yes. Okay. but you have the right to remain silent if you want to. Um, we'll just you'll take longer the process. We'll go store to store, make sure there's nothing else that's stolen. um you'll just make the the process much longer than it has to be. Um That's a Mercedes keep on Mercedes. >> [music] >> All right. So, sh bag. All right. I'm going to put back in here right now. What you saying, dude? Um, you going to come down to headquarters? >> Yeah. All right. Just to do that statement. All right. Give me a second. Hold on. One second, man. Hey, what's up? Sorry. Yeah, I saw her on camera. Exact description. She hung out in the mall for an additional hour and a half after >> take over. Uh we she doesn't we don't know where the necklace is that's on her. She had a pair of pants from Nordstrom that she doesn't have a receipt for that we're checking on now. So possibly a pair of pants and an $1,800 necklace that we can't find on her in her bags. I don't know if she has it on her person's uh anyway, but we'll just make sure check her out and we'll go from there. So, just one $1,800 necklace and then um potentially a pair of pants. All right. Uh I'm on a top deck by Nordstrom in the mall. Yeah. I'm going to bring her down to my car and you and Marcus and then bring her downtown. Uh for Ford's going to grab a statement for me and uh we're going to go from there. See if anything else comes out of it. If not, it'll just be those ones. All right. All right. Sorry. All right. Well, I don't know if he dropped it. I think there's a good chance he either got rid of it or uh she put in our car, but >> [music] [music] >> for them out this way on this side. [music] All right, [music] I'm actually down. I'm sorry, man. We have to go down one more level. on this way. We'll take elevator [music] [music] for a second. I ago calling me now. Hey, what's up, man? [music] >> Okay. [music] All right. Yeah, give me a statement if you have any footage or whatever if they could uh eventually forward that or get that as well. What's up? Uh, we we got to find where her car is and whatnot. She doesn't want to talk anymore. So, yeah. Uh, we just got to find where she parked. [music] All right. Yeah. All right. Nice. You want to keep the keys up here with you then? Just in case you found the car try to run them back up and then if not that's house keys. There's two sets on the key. You looked in here as well. [music] >> [music] >> Yep. It's the idea I have of you. >> Request for me too. Yeah. >> Mercedes and Honda. Uh she's definitely somewhere outside you Marcus in one of these decks. Yeah. >> Uh cuz she's going in and out and walking around. She's been hanging out in New. So I'm going take you the elevator over there on the first floor. >> Is Chanel in the horseshoe behind or is it down [music] below? >> Uh just walk back a little bit. It's on the right hand side. Not that far. >> Oh, it's on up here. >> Yeah, second second level. Uh right hand side. All right. [music] [music] So, we may have a pair of pants, too. So, so far, a necklace and a pair of pants. Uh, these are our personal possessions. Two sets of keys for cars. She most likely somewhere in this deck. Uh, we don't have a necklace as of yet, but we'll [music] see. All right, I'm going to take her down uh and [music] uh get it going from there. Did this get back to us on the reading? Yeah. All right. [music] wasn't grocer. >> I'm surprised she's negative. Said she got >> She got apparently arrested. Uh probably >> Yeah, true. Most lady rest. [music] All right, lady taking down. I'm down one level. I'm going to I'm down and out. Yeah, I'm down and out the front. So, I'm going to take it down the elevator. [music] Yeah, they had images of her in the past in the store. Um, John Tony over here is walking on this house. Protection is actually knows her as well. >> Okay. >> All right. If you if you have anything or let us know. All right. All right. Thanks, Tony, for the help. >> Oh, all right. We'll go with Thank you. [music] I think let us know we can't communicate elevators buildings. >> All right, we're going to walk out this door and then just walk right around the corner. Sorry, man. Step on your shoe. All right, walk this way. Show vehicles parked on this side. >> So the other officers have the keys, the car keys. >> Yes. So, what does that mean? >> Uh, potentially could be. >> So, is it going to drive it? >> No, we don't we we don't drive your vehicle. If we can locate your vehicle and we believe there's merchandise inside of it that you may have stolen and put inside of it, we may uh uh take it for uh a search. All right, come over here. Before we go, um, you're missing the necklace. Clearly, they have you on video selecting and removing the necklace. You do not have it in your person. If you took it to your vehicle and you would allow us to retrieve it from your vehicle and sign a form that allows us to retrieve it from your vehicle, they will not seize the car. You see what I'm saying? If they find a vehicle that's associated with you and they they feel that that item is in the vehicle, they will encounter that vehicle for search and seizure. Not just take the necklace out of the car, they will apply for forfeite of that vehicle. You will not get that vehicle back. So, is it worth it to you to lose that vehicle or would you allow us to retrieve that necklace from whatever vehicle you may put? When you say allow you, does that mean uh >> if it's your vehicle and you came here with it, we need your permission to enter that vehicle. Is it your vehicle? You drive here today? >> Yes. So, you would enter the vehicle and search or do I >> We would You would sign a form that would allow us to enter the vehicle to retrieve that. >> Yes, I did. You can regular and we're not questioning you. We're just asking you for permission. Sign the form. The least going to allow us to enter your vehicle to retrieve the item. Our objective is to uh retrieve that necklace that you took that we have on camera footage of you taking the item, putting it into your pocket, concealing it, and walking past all points of sales. >> Yes. I mean, it's your it's your choice. You you have the option right now. Yes or no? Because if we do find the vehicle and we believe that that necklace is in there, we will we will definitely inbound the vehicle for search and there's a really good chance that they're going to apply for forfeite and you will get that vehicle back. The thing is if I allow signal form allow you to search, you may find anything else you like. If you find anything else along those search for that for that necklace. Yeah. If it's if it's something tags on it, sensor tags, no no receipts. It's it's >> No, I there's a whole bunch of stuff, you know, that I have. There's no sensor pads, but that I've purchased before and I don't you might you know, you might Can you explain what what will happen then? If there's items that are in bags that don't have receipts, you're saying you purchase other items legitimately. I I can understand that. And if you purchase them legitimately, you have a receipt somewhere electronically or or >> but not saying that that's fine. If we do come across something that appears to be Yeah. I mean, honestly, you have items from our stores. They they witnessed you select this this necklace and put it in your pocket and walk out with it. If there's anything else that's new merchandise that's in bags that doesn't have receipts that will be held. You're not going to be charged for anything unless there's there's anything that that proves any criminal activity. But if there's items that are new items that are in bags or whatever that don't have receipts, we hold it for safekeeping until you bring us receipt and then you'll get that returned to you. So you're not going to lose those items. Okay. >> So those items has to be held. Well, if there's something in there that that has it's brand new in bags that you know doesn't have any tags or or it has tags on it or doesn't have a receipt with it. So, it's your choice. I'm I'm just giving you an option. Let's say that you impound the vehicle then basically I fulfill all the contents of the vehicle too. >> Not not necessarily not necessarily any items in the vehicle that are yours are yours. We're talking about the vehicle >> vehicle cuz it's technically it could be considered consider using the commission crime. There's a nexus that can be connected to criminality and a criminal act. We we have the ability to apply for forfeite of you. >> I understand. So So the only >> your your personal effects and things that you are you have ownership of in the vehicle will be returned to you. I'm just talking about the vehicle itself. But it doesn't have to go that way. If if you're willing to sign the search form for our officer to allow us to go in there and retrieve the necklace and just the vehicle, whatever's in the vehicle, and then that's it. We leave the vehicle. We don't we don't touch the vehicle. >> When you're released, you get your keys, you come back, take your car home. >> I understand that. But I'm trying to say that if you you're saying that if there are other items in there and they don't have sensor pads. >> No, >> but but they are brand new >> and I don't have the receipts. >> Okay. >> So that >> we hold it for you. Basically, it's it's safekeeping for you. >> We we'll hold it in safe keeping until >> you return. You know, you're going to get paperwork. you're going to have to come back to court, whatever. This will give you the opportunity to uh to retrieve your items. I we're not taking it taking anything items that were witness any other items that you don't have. Yeah. unless he says it plain sight or is it your option? >> I was looking up that case though and we should still have exit and see search the car without you see it. All right. What's your decision going to be, man? We can't be here all day. We got to Do you want to let us uh search the vehicle or do you want to uh decline that and you go the other route? >> I'm so sorry to ask you. >> You can ask. I can ask my There's no need to speak to your attorney, but we're clearly letting you know what your options are. This is a lawyer's not going to tell you anything different than what we're telling you. I mean, if you call a lawyer, it's going to have to be from headquarters. You don't have phones here. You you can call from headquarters, but at that point, it's going to be uh it's going to be too late for you cuz you have to be you have to be present while we're doing the search. Ma'am, just look at it this way. We're not questioning you or accusing you of anything. We already know what you did. So, what we asking any further like your right to attorney involves us asking you any other questions about any crimes or any other further crimes. We know that you came here in the vehicle and we have the suspicion that you walked out of the vehicle and place that item in the vehicle. We're just asking you if you're willing to sign search form and allow us to retrieve that item from you. If not, do we have to It's not specific. It's just a search. It's an overall search. Listen, you make it in the way easier for us. We're going to make the whole process easier for you. >> She She has a fear more in the car. It's pretty much simple as that. We know you came here to get something, right? We're not know what you did. So we're not, you know, accusing you and trying to fish for information. What we're trying to do instead of towing your car to headquarters, applying for a search warrant, waiting for, you know, 3 to five business days for you to get your car, we if you sign the search warrant, we'll leave the car here for you. So when you're released, because shoplifting, it's not that big of a deal. I don't know if you have history or not. I can probably know. But if you are released today, all you got to do is just come back and drive home. >> I understand your supervisors that might have other items in the vehicle. And if you >> you need to find other items. We're not going to take your items from you if they belong there. >> Well, that's the thing. I don't know. >> It proof of that other All right, man. You're allowed to be present. How about that? You're going to stand by and you can observe us through it. >> I understand that your supervisor explained to me that all those items will be everything's going to be taken out of the car. It doesn't appear to be the only person today. But if we do it today, ma'am, you can observe it and maybe tell us. But when we get a search warrant, like everything's going to come out. Does that mean that as soon as he supposed you already had multiple items today that you you have items that you took from Nordstrom, you have an item you took from Chanel. So, if we see other items in there that you potentially didn't pay for, you have no proof of uh receipt, those will be taken. So, I explained to you a few times, man. So, you got to make a decision cuz we we it's we don't stand out here all day, all night. Like, >> so basically what it comes down to, if you're going to drive your car tonight or you taking the Uber home. So, which one would you rather do? Heat. Heat. You put your name here. The officer puts his name here. The air making and model of the vehicle, license plate number says that you authorize us to uh conduct a motor vehicle search. If I do give me a video from this like you said they have to contact someone else. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh no luck on track over there. >> If I do give permission I may wave that right at any >> you can tell us to stop. And if he tell us to stop, then we may go the same route we were going to go initially, which is to impound the car. Yes. >> I understand that the ownership does not search warrant in our man. Listen, we're being very lenient with you. We We do this all the time. So, it's not that hard of a question. It's a yes or no. >> Yes. We're going to search the car. >> No. Be there. >> You'll have to move on with our day and the car is going to be >> We're taking headquarters to process for the crimes we have today. I >> I understand you're very um do you want me Oh, do you want me to be present? Right. >> Yeah. You have to be present. You don't have to be present. We don't want you to do anything. I want you to tell me what you want to do. >> I'm If I'm present and as soon as you pull the the item, then you don't search further. Do you >> ma'am? We have to search the entire vehicle to make sure. How do I know it's there's one item, 10 items, 15 items. So far, we already found we have two items you know you taken. We have we have video footage of you taking so potential you were shopping more items. Maybe you didn't, maybe you did. But in our search, if we happen to find more, we'll continue the search and look. So, >> yeah, definitely. >> Your car. >> I know you and you're saying that I have to provide the receipts. >> All right, ma'am. We have We have been quite patient. Um, what's your decision today? Would you like it if you say yes or no? >> So, how do you want me to do this? If you say no, we take you to headquarters. We process you for what went on today. If you say yes, we search your car and we go from there. You can say a verbal. Everything's being recorded. >> Oh, okay. So, you don't need me to write that down now? >> No, sir. Yes. >> Or do you want me to go to the car right now or? >> Well, we're going to we're going to drive up there because we want you to be present while we're while we do the search. If you're willing to let us do that, we're going to stand by. The officers will search the car, stand by with you, retrieve the items that we're looking for. And like I said, you know, if you're willing to do this, fantastic. It'll help expedate the process. We'll get what we need out of this. But if you don't, definitely we're going to apply for the search warrant and probably get it and we'll go for everything. So this this is the the better of the options but you know it's your choice >> again. Um so do you want me to >> Yes. Well start with a yes or no man. What is your answer to our question? >> Yeah. >> Yes. Okay. >> You left-handed rightanded? >> Why don't we uh drive? >> All right. Yes, >> that's why I was asking. >> All right. You want to drive? >> Okay. >> Come on. Right here. >> Where's your vehicle parked? >> Was it the cover parking lot? >> Did you walk in Marcus today? >> Yeah. >> That's the entry point. >> What car are you driving? What's the make model? >> Um, Honda. >> What color? Round one, likes the gray color. >> It's a RA. It's a Honda Accord. >> Honda >> gray. >> Gray. >> Okay. >> And what year approximately? >> New or older? >> Older. It's on the third. Is it the third level? >> Okay. Well, >> there you can point it out. >> What? >> No. >> No. I have accused. >> The arrest rested on probable cause established before contact. Store security had already identified her on camera matching clothing, glasses, physical description, and officers had been actively looking for her inside the mall. Under the totality of circumstances standard, the Supreme Court said in Illinois versus Gates, a positive surveillance identification combined with a confirmed physical match on scene is more than enough. The arrest itself was legally sound. Miranda was administered at the correct moment at handcuffing before substantive questioning resumed. That timing matters. The rights attach at custody and this officer did not wait. The advisement was textbook. The onseen search of her pockets and bag was lawful as a search incident to arrest. United States versus Robinson makes clear that once an arrest is lawful, no additional justification is required to search the person. The necklace, however, was not found. Officers noted she had been in the mall for an additional hour and a half after the theft. The logical inference that she had placed the item in her vehicle was reasonable and it had legal consequences that shaped everything that followed. The necklace captured on video going into her pocket, then not recovered on her person likely satisfied probable cause to search her vehicle under the automobile exception. Carol versus United States established that when officers have probable cause to believe a vehicle contains evidence of a crime, no warrant is required. Officers on scene actually debated this among themselves. One stated they likely had grounds to search the car without a warrant. That analysis was probably correct, which makes the 25-minute consent negotiation that followed legally unnecessary and arguably its own problem. That negotiation opened with officers offering two options. Sign a consent form and keep the car or decline, face impoundment, a search warrant application, a 3 to five business day delay, and potential forfeite of the vehicle itself. Under Schneckloth versus Bamante, consent to search must be voluntary, not the product of duress or coercion. The form itself stated she understood she had no warrant and could withdraw at any time, but the surrounding circumstances tell a different story. She was handcuffed and under arrest. She had already been told an attorney would be too late to help if she called from headquarters. She was presented with a choice between signing or losing her car. Whether that produced genuinely voluntary consent is the legal question a New Jersey court would have to resolve. New Jersey courts apply not only the federal fourth amendment but article 1, paragraph 7 of the New Jersey Constitution independently. New Jersey courts have consistently interpreted that provision more protectively than its federal counterpart. A suppression motion here would have real traction. Here is where the deeper issue starts. At roughly 6 minutes into the encounter, she directly asked to speak with her lawyer. The officer response was to redirect her to headquarters. That response was legally wrong. Edwards versus Arizona drew a bright line. Once a person in custody invokes the right to council, all questioning must stop immediately. Not at headquarters. Not when it becomes convenient. Right. Then [clears throat] she invoked again later just before signing the consent form asking to consult an attorney before putting her name on anything. An officer replied there was no need to speak to a lawyer about this. That statement was incorrect. The open legal question is whether a request to sign a consent form constitutes interrogation under Rhode Island versus Inis. If it does, Edwards applies and further contact after her invocation was prohibited. If it is framed as administrative rather than questioning, the analysis shifts. The forfeite threat, the time pressure, the denial of council access, and the custodial setting together create a fact pattern that a defense attorney would immediately target. A consent obtained under those conditions has a credible argument for suppression. New Jersey statute 2 C 2011 covers shoplifting by concealment. The prosecution must prove willful concealment of unpurchased merchandise while still on the premises or past all points of sale with intent to deprive the merchant. Every element is documented on store surveillance. The necklace was valued at approximately $19. Under New Jersey statute 2C 201 subsection B, theft under $200 is a petty disorderly person's offense. The lowest tier up to 30 days county jail up to a $500 fine. That low classification does not tell the full story. Subsection C of the same statute provides that a fourth or subsequent shoplifting conviction triggers a mandatory minimum of not less than 90 days incarceration regardless of the current theft value. Officers confirmed an arrest at the same Pamis location the week prior. A supervisor referenced her being known across multiple stores. If prior convictions are established at sentencing, conditional discharge is off the table. The mandatory minimum applies. That is the real exposure here. The officer receives a B minus. Probable cause was solid. Miranda timing was correct. The onseen search was lawful. And the professional tone held throughout. The attorney invocations were mishandled. And that is the deduction. She receives a B. She invoked at the right moments, read the form before signing, and did not physically resist. Her error was signing without counsel after a negotiation designed to make refusal costly. First takeaway, invoking the right to council is not a formality. It is a legal stop sign on all further contact. Everything that continues without an attorney present after that invocation is legally questionable and potentially suppressible. Second, if probable cause already supports an automobile exception search, signing a consent form under pressure waves the strongest suppression argument a defendant has. Saying no forces officers to get a warrant, and that warrant faces its own judicial scrutiny. Third, a forfeite threat over a $19 theft is aggressive posturing. New Jersey courts apply proportionality review under New Jersey statute 2C 641, a nexus that thin does not automatically survive. Know the law before you sign anything. Let us know if there is an interaction or legal topic that you would like us to discuss in the comments below. 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