my brain's going- I'm saying, I guess they're not ... how did that happen? They're not. Okay. Would there be any other explanation as to how that would happen? Apache Junction, Arizona. The twenty-sixth of January, twenty twenty-three. Two investigators from Polk County, Wisconsin, at a kitchen table. The woman across from them is eighty. She has made them coffee. The boots she is talking about have been in an evidence room in Wisconsin since the thirteenth of December, nineteen eighty-five. The day after a murder. Remember- Oh, ... yeah we talked about the Arctic cat boots. Yep. Do you remember the Arctic cat boots? I had many pairs of boots. But the boots that you turned over. Do you remember turning those boots over to law enforcement? The, the, the boots- I don't remember specifically, no. Okay. All right. 'Cause I had probably three or four pairs of boots. Okay. So those boots were submitted to the crime lab and, and now with technology being what it is, there's a reasonable degree of certainty that those boots match the boots left in the snow. Size print or something like that? Yeah. obviously from an investigator standpoint, that leads us to ask you if you were at, if you were at the crime scene, what's the other logical explanation as to why your boot print is in the snow next to the body? Maybe there is another explanation. Yeah, I was gonna say. And what would that be? It would've been somebody that had another boot similar to that, size wise, I mean- Well- ... whatever ... so- I don't remember what the- Yeah. So- ... prints are or anything. So- I mean, I don't know what they are- Was the print right there at our place or where- Right there. Right there, right by the body, and then there was another print that was found down the alleyway- Oh, ... So they- okay. and that is the same location that we have at least one eyewitness who saw the suspect- ... that has a very, very consistent physical description that the- Well, I know they took my long gray coat. Yeah. And they, I seem to think- ... Yeah that's what that person had That is the whole film. A woman who says the boots were not hers, and a state that kept them for thirty-eight years, waiting for one more person to say out loud what a town of two thousand already believed. St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin. Population two thousand two hundred. Yvonne Menke was forty-five, a mother of four, and she worked at a laundry. She lived above Main Street with her daughter Julie, who was twenty. On Thursday the twelfth of December, nineteen eighty-five, a little after six in the morning, Yvonne went down the enclosed back staircase to warm up her car. Julie heard three shots. From the bathroom window she saw someone walking away up the alley with a paper bag, then jogging. Someone short. Not a big person. Police found her at the bottom of the stairs. Beside her, in the snow, a boot print. The word Arctic was pressed into the heel. A police dog from across the river in Minnesota followed the scent one block north, to a place where the prints ended and a car had been. Officers poured sulphur casts of the prints before the sun could take them. Two days earlier, at ten to seven in the morning, the phone in the apartment had rung. Julie answered. A woman's voice. Julie could hear coins dropping into a pay phone. The woman asked whether her mother had left for work yet, and what time she usually left. Julie told her. Twenty to seven, quarter to seven. The caller said okay and hung up. Why does talking about that make you feel emotional? Because I feel the caller was the person who murdered my mom, and I told her everything she wanted to know to make it happen. Everything you are about to hear is the real recording, in order, with the dates on screen. If that is how you want these cases told, subscribe. It is the only thing that keeps the next tape coming. Within a day the police had a name. Yvonne had been seeing a man named Jack Owen, a horse trainer. So had another woman. Mary Jo Lunsmann. Divorced, a Morgan-horse woman who showed with Jack and had been, on and off, his girlfriend. That autumn Yvonne had given Jack an ultimatum. Her, or nobody. Jack chose Yvonne. On the thirteenth of December, the day after the murder, officers went to Mary Jo's home and took her boots. Two Arctic Cat winter boots. A grey coat. A black coat. Two hats. A scarf. The state crime laboratory compared the sulphur casts to her boots. Tread pattern. Size. Wear. Consistent. The prints in the snow were a woman's size five. Her phone records showed four calls between her house and Yvonne's that autumn, two of them after midnight on the thirteenth of November. Twenty-one calls to a friend of Jack's. Thirteen to Jack. Then, after Jack went back to Yvonne, nineteen more. She was interviewed on the thirteenth of December and again on the twentieth. She said her relationship with Jack was about horses. She said she did not know Yvonne face to face. She said she had woken at seven, heard about the death at nine, picked up fish in the town of Luck and gone shopping. Told that police had evidence she had been at the building, she said she had not. Nobody charged her. The gun was never found. In two thousand and nine the laboratory tested the boots, the coats and the hat again for blood and found none. Every new sheriff in Polk County reopened the file. Every one of them closed it. Yvonne's granddaughter, Kristin, worked as a corporal on a jail floor in Bryan, Texas. In twenty twenty-one she started calling St. Croix Falls for the records. She said later that most of the people involved had passed away, and she did not want to wait any more. Polk County put two investigators on it. This time the witnesses talked. One of them had been carrying something for thirty-seven years: about a year after the murder, Mary Jo had asked a man she was seeing to burn some clothes for her. In September twenty twenty-two they phoned Mary Jo in Arizona. She said she and Jack had been friends. She did not remember meeting Yvonne. The investigators wrote that she was not forthcoming. In January twenty twenty-three they flew down. Hey, Mary Jo. Good morning. Have a seat. Thank you. Thanks. How was your, how was your day trip yesterday? Oh, it was fine. Good. Sorry we are running late. Yeah. Yep. Sorry. It's my fault. Not these guys, they're on time. No, we're good. Okay, have a seat while I move the cat. Oh, okay. Right. the sun, I don't think it fits- No, I'm good. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Appreciate it. Um, we, we, uh, no offense to Arizona, and no offense to Steve, he's been great to work with, but we don't, if at all possible, wanna come back to Arizona if we don't have to. So thank you for taking the time to be available, and just kinda let us check the box, and then we'll move on to other stuff, okay? Um, I'm wondering if you can talk to me a little bit about Jack's family, and more specifically- right? Yeah. So we're reading reports that are 30-some years old. The phone call stuff. Um, so yesterday we talked a little bit about that. And there's this phone call between you and Yvonne, and correct me if I'm wrong, in, like, in like 1983 where- It could've been ... it could've been. I have no idea anymore. And that was the call where you and Yvonne kind of talked about- Well, yeah, we found out what he was summers. Okay. All right. Um, s- sticking with Jim Moore for just a moment. There's a tip that came in that we're trying to put some gravity to, okay? Mm-hmm. And I come at every interview with the idea that if I'm straightforward, that's the only way I know how to be. I'm not someone that can come into a room and like, "Hey, shiny coin over here," and- ... try to play mind tricks. I'm not that smart. Well, see, that's what they did to me- ... with their little mind tricks and... But, you know, and they were, they sent my hu- ex-husband some ridiculous thing. Uh, what if he said that? But I didn't take that what if at the time. Mm-hmm. And I said, "There's no reason he would say anything like that." Mm-hmm. Well, then it dawned on, you know, I found out later they're allowed to lie to you and turn things around, twist it around. Is that maybe how you put it? Yeah. Yeah. And back then I didn't- Sure ... I didn't even think about it. So- I just said, "I can't understand why he'd say anything like that," and that was all, my only answer. Yeah. And, and I'm glad we're talking about this because we are, we're allowed to lie. Okay? Oh, yeah. Now- Yeah ... now Mark and I, um, have worked this case for a long time, and, and we've, we just have a similar personality. While I'm allowed to lie- I don't lie. Well, a lot of it's just- ... Okay kind of twisting things a little. Yeah, well some- ... In some ways some of that is, like there might be some information we can't tell you, right? So- Oh yeah, I understand that. Right? So we like- Yeah ... have to tap dance around- But I mean twisting something- ... ... certain things to get somebody to say something maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the way I end up coming at- Yeah ... the other person. Yeah, yeah. So- And I didn't know anything about that. Yeah. So during our conversation here, while, while I might- ... Yeah I'm not gonna lie in the sense that I'm not going to shy away from straightforward questions- No, that's fine ... because that's my job, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the only way you get down- That's- ... figuring this out ... that, that's, that's- And I wish we could figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. I really do. And that's, that's our goal. It's a sad situation. That's our goal. So just so you know from where I'm coming from, if I ask you a question, I'm not playing tricks. If I tell you something, there is some con- degree of confidence behind it. Yeah, okay. Okay? All right. That's fair. Okay. Um, so Jim Orr. There is a tip that was brought forward that, I don't even know what timeline, I'll say shortly after Yvonne was killed. Whatever that means. Yeah. Right? That you brought some clothes to Jim Orr's house, and either you burned the clothes at Jim Orr's house- Yeah ... or Jim Orr burned them for you. I think the tip is not necessarily that specific, but the tip is from someone who we've interviewed and we've, we've vetted pretty thoroughly. Um, so there's a degree of confidence behind the tip, right? Yeah, yeah. Um- I do not remember anything, but- Okay. Did you ever... W- what would be the reason for someone to come forward to law enforcement and say that all these years later? have no idea. Okay. Did you at any point go to Jim Orr's house and burn any clothes? No, I never burned any cl- or I mean, I was out there on and off- ... Yeah but I never did anything like that. Did you have Jim, did you ask Jim to burn any clothes for you? Not that I, nothing I ever remember. Okay. All right. I feel that it would've... unless there were some old rags or something like that, that it's something to get rid of it, but I can't think of anything. Okay. Full disclosure, we talked to Jim. Uh, Jim lives in California. Oh. Um, so we've talked to Jim and we've, we have an interview with Jim and we've confronted him on the same thing. And this is where I'm not gonna tell you what... Some of the stuff I can tell you. Oh, yeah. No, I understand that. But I will tell you straightforward that we've talked to Jim- Yeah. Okay ... about this very tip. Um, so there's... Law enforcement has reason to believe that there is some truth to what was told to us, and our goal here at the end of the day, Mary... Can I call you Mary or Mary Jo? Do you prefer? I usually go by Mary Jo. Mary Jo. Okay. So our goal here at the end of the day is this: we want closure. That's what we want, right? The Menke family wants closure. We've talked to the Menke family. The district attorney wants closure. Everybody wants closure. It's 37 years, right? That's a What the investigators did not say at the table was how much they already had. The district attorney in Balsam Lake had told them he was ready to file. They had come for one thing. To hear what she would say when the boots were put in front of her. Remember- Oh, ... yeah we talked about the Arctic cat boots. Yep. Do you remember the Arctic cat boots? I had many pairs of boots. But the boots that you turned over. Do you remember turning those boots over to law enforcement? The, the, the boots- I don't remember specifically, no. Okay. All right. 'Cause I had probably three or four pairs of boots. Okay. So those boots were submitted to the crime lab and, and now with technology being what it is, there's a reasonable degree of certainty that those boots match the boots left in the snow. Size print or something like that? Yeah. obviously from an investigator standpoint, that leads us to ask you if you were at, if you were at the crime scene, what's the other logical explanation as to why your boot print is in the snow next to the body? Maybe there is another explanation. Yeah, I was gonna say. And what would that be? It would've been somebody that had another boot similar to that, size wise, I mean- Well- ... whatever ... so- I don't remember what the- Yeah. So- ... prints are or anything. So- I mean, I don't know what they are- Sure ... what they look like. So what they did is they took your boots and then they matched it to a cast, a sulfur cast of the print. So they not only look at the size, but they look at the wear pattern, the tread pattern. I mean, a lot of individual characteristics about shoes or boots. Like, if I, if I take my shoes off, you know, my... the bottom of my shoe is gonna tell a lot of things. It's gonna tell wear pattern. It's gonna tell most likely at least a general manufacturing date, you know, because shoes change, right? The manufacturer- Yeah. ... changes the brand every years. Um, so then through that information, the lab is able to make an opinion, and then we go to Articat, and Articat says, "Oh, yeah, that boot, that specific boot is this model." And during this timeframe, they only sold these amount to the general population, and this specific size is the chances are, you know, X amount that this specific boot was sold in this region. You know what I mean? That like you start to do kind of the, the statistical analysis, the probability that this boot is the same boot that left the print is pretty freaking high. Was the print right there at our place or where- Right there. Right there, right by the body, and then there was another print that was found down the alleyway- Oh, ... So they- okay. and that is the same location that we have at least one eyewitness who saw the suspect- ... that has a very, very consistent physical description that the- Well, I know they took my long gray coat. Yeah. And they, I seem to think- ... Yeah that's what that person had on. Right. right now we're operating on the very strong belief that, that your, your boots, the boots that were found in your house, are the same boots that were found next to the body. my brain's going- I'm saying, I guess they're not ... how did that happen? They're not. Okay. Would there be any other explanation as to how that would happen? I don't know. Um, it could be somebody else had boots like 'em. I don't know. They weren't mine. I mean, I was not there, those prints, and I don't... Like I say, I don't remember. And they took my long gray coat, so I assume that's what they were looking for, somebody with a long gray coat, and they never gave it back to me. Mm-hmm. So I, I don't know. Um, one of the best things we do to try to eliminate or support whether or not someone was involved or they weren't involved is we ask them to take a polygraph. Is that something that you would be open to? I was told before never to do that. Okay. And that's why I didn't before either. Okay. How about now? Is there any- ... do you have any thoughts on that? We have an FBI guy who it's literally all he does. He travels everywhere to do, uh, polygraphs. He's actually in town. I don't feel... Yeah, like I say, because I was told before not to. Okay. And by the attorney I had at that time. Okay. All right. So I guess I'm- You, you understand why we're asking. Well, yeah- Right? ... ... I understand why you're asking because when it, when it comes to eliminating or supporting or excluding people- But the polygraph- But- ... isn't always accurate. That's the thing. I'm not a polygraph examiner, so I- I know. That's what I've been- Yeah, so I can't- ... told, and I've heard of instances, and that's where it makes me leery. Sure. I'm not a polygraph examiner, so I can't really say much about that. I don't know what the statistics are. I can just tell you, in my experience, it's been a really good tool that law enforcement uses to steer in different directions, right? Like, I can't- Yeah, it used to years ago- Like, ... like I- but like I said, then after... And my attorney at that time telling me- ... Sure that's not a good idea. Yeah. And he said it's- You know, usu- usually when someone passes a poly, the way that helps us is we can just eliminate somebody and move on to something else so that we're not chasing our tail. Oh, I understand that. Yeah. I understand that. Mm-hmm. And, you know, and the, and the thing about polys that maybe sometimes gets lost in the mix, at least in Wisconsin, I don't know what it's like in, in Arizona, polygraphs, the actual exam itself is not admissible in court. Can't use it in court. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I understand that, yeah. obviously I'm coming at it from one side, right? I'm coming at it from a biased angle, but there's kinda really nothing to lose by taking it, right? It, it, it's not admissible in court no matter what. The, the benefit is for, for someone who passes a polygraph, then that examiner comes to the investigator or investigators and says, "Yeah, she was being truthful." Well, the thing is- They probably, they probably are simply looking for- ... I've heard of that, but people can pass them, so they... You know, I am... and that's what I've heard that way too, that they can pass them. Mm-hmm. So that doesn't livinate you either. It doesn't, um, but there's a, there's a, there's a level of s- confidence that goes along with the polygraphs that are, are currently being run in 2023 with the technology and also the examiner. I just know the examiner that I work with. Oh, yeah. The examiner that I work with is freaking awesome, um, so I put a lot of confidence in him. But it's just one of the tools that we use. So if you're not comfortable with it, that's fine. That's totally your choice. Obviously, there's no you have to do it or you don't have to do it, but it's just one of our tools. So I'm gonna operate- Yeah. ... I understand that Well, because we have a guy that's ready if you're, if you're willing to do it. No, I don't feel comfortable about it. Okay. Okay. One of the other things we wanted to do would would you submit to, uh, giving us your DNA? 'Cause when we look back at the case file- ... in '85, DNA technology wasn't what it is now. Um, although there's some different things that are in motion that I can't elaborate on. But we don't have your DNA in a, in a sense where someone- ... has collected a buccal swab from you, which is what we would ask to do today. Um, so that would be another part of our investigative process. Would you submit to us collecting your DNA? I'd have to talk to an attorney first before I... 'Cause I don't know enough about this stuff. Okay. I would have to actually talk to an attorney- Okay ... I think. Okay. Well, what is it that concerns you about that? I don't know, it's just I don't feel comfortable. Okay. Um, I don't know how ex- explain, explain that. 'Cause you can understand from my standpoint- Mm-hmm ... certainly no disrespect, but I mean, I've, I've been doing this for 17 years, and I've handled a lot of, uh, cases. Maybe not exactly like this- Well, wouldn't they have gotten DNA after o- out of all that stuff that they took from me? I can't confirm or deny that they haven't. Yeah, 'cause there would be DNA all over that. Some... There... We have certain ways that we go about our job, right? And certain requests that are sometimes made by crime labs and, and such, um, where we... That's just a part of our process that we go. So, um- Oh, yeah. I understand ... you certainly wouldn't be the first person that I've ever asked for a DNA sample, and you won't be the last. You know, DNA is just kind of... That's just kind of 2023 law enforcement these days, right? Um, my, my discussion with most people is like, well, if you didn't have anything to do with it, you weren't there, then that would be a n- a way for you to exclude yourself as opposed to include yourself, right? Just like the polygraph. So the benefit for you, of course, not talking from a law enforcement- Okay, then I, I think the be- my DNA's on those boots. You've got it there. I can't, I'm not, I can't get into the science- But, I mean, you've already got it. To me, you've already got it. I can't get into the science part of it. Yeah, that's- But, but remember when I tell you that I'm not gonna lie to you. Oh, no. I know. So there's a- I know. But I mean, that's what I'm thinking. You've got it already- ... Yeah as far as by boots, right? Yeah. Well, your- And if they're proved that they're there. Well, your, your understanding of DNA is probably based on Dateline NBC, and that's... it's, it's different than, it's different in real life than it is on the TV. It's on all your clothes and everything. Nine minutes earlier the boots were not hers. Now her DNA was on them. Okay. Um, well, I'll... Because we weren't sure whether you were gonna say yes or no on that, I mean, we just don't know, um, we do have a warrant that Steve has, and he's the... and that's what the d- designed to do is get a warrant in for your DNA. 'Cause we weren't sure if you would say yes or no. We just have to have that in our back pocket, right? Because I don't want to fly back out there is all. So we do have a warrant to get your DNA. Um, I'll let Steve explain the process. It's fairly, pretty easygoing process. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like anything like if you're to go to hospital or anything like that. But just so you know, because I'm a straight shooter, I told you I'd be a straight shooter. Yeah. Um, we do have that, and we'll have to at some point collect that, okay? Yeah. Uh, like I said, I will have to get an attorney then to talk to them about it. Okay. About the DNA? Well, I imagine, yes. Or about just, about just- I imagine I should to be on the safe side for myself. Okay. Are you okay to continue to have a conversation, or you just wanna consult with the attorney about the DNA? I'd have to consult them about it and see what they say. Okay. So can I continue to talk to you about my interview, or do you wanna consult with an attorney before you continue? I don't know. Is there much left? Yeah, I have a couple things left. But I don't, but I don't wanna misunderstand what you're saying either. So- Yeah, I just... Like I say, I don't know enough about it either. I wanna be sure that it's okay, or that they say it's okay or not, or what or- Okay ... or not. How about this? Just to make sure that I understand what you're telling me, because I am not into violating people's rights. That's not what I do. I wanna continue to talk to you about this case. Are you okay continuing to talk to me without an attorney present, or do you wish to consult with one? I don't know. But this is a point where I need to do that. I can't give you any legal advice. Yeah. Um- I just kinda need a yes or no, because, uh, for your benefit, I don't wanna violate anything. I don't wanna be misconstrued as someone who is dirty or anything like that. I'm gonna need you to kinda give me some direction on that Um, I have no problem continuing to talk to you, but I just need a- Well, let's just finish, continue talking, see what you've got there. Okay. And we can do that. Okay. So you're okay talking without an attorney at this point? Yeah, at this point. Okay. I will just see where- You understand at any point you can say timeout? been. That's the way, that's the way. So please keep that in mind, okay? With what I'm about to say. Okay? There's a lot going on in this case, and we've uncovered a lot in this case. Okay? 37 years is a long time, and on one hand that hinders a case. When you take it over because of the timeline, people's memories fade, people die. But on the other hand, technology gets better, okay? Than it was back in '85. And some people actually come forward and say, "You know what? I didn't tell you this back then because I was scared, because I knew the people involved," whatever. I mean, insert whatever excuse the reason why they didn't, they didn't tell us back then. Well, now they've come forward with some information that they didn't come with back then. All of those things that are going on, remember I've talked to Jim Moore- Yeah ... or we've talked to Jim Moore, right? Um, statements that have come forward that we've since learned since we opened up this case. The DNA technology, all of that stuff. The District Attorney's office is ready to file charges against you for homicide. Okay? one. Yeah. Cool. You know what I'm saying? So that's my spiel. Our spiel is that's what we're looking for and, and I can't elaborate more on the evidence only to tell you face to face, eye to eye we have more evidence than what we had in, in 1985, and to the point where the District Attorney's office is ready to charge. Okay. And that's a pretty high burden, you know? So we want to find a way to get this resolved. Yeah. All right. Um, certainly you can elaborate if you want or tell me what you're thinking. I'm, I'm here to- I still think I need to talk some legal advice. I don't know. Sure. Sure. I get that. I don't feel confident either way- Yeah. I get that ... till I know. I just really need effectively- Yeah ... explain anything. Let, let, let me, let me just ask you this, Mary Jo. Now, w- w- we don't know for sure what the DA's gonna do, but we do know that, that, that he's close and he's made some representations to us that, that he's- Yeah ... ready to go on this thing. Now, when a DA files a criminal complaint, there are, are two ways that DA can go. Uh, he can file a complaint on a warrant, which means somebody gets arrested, they're brought to the courthouse. Uh, or he can file it on a summons, which is basically, "Here's the criminal complaint, and here's when you need to be in court to answer to it." Uh, assuming that the DA does charge you, uh, we'd like to be able to advise him on which way to go. If he does charge you, are you willing to come back to Wisconsin and appear in court on the charges, or does the DA need to file a warrant? Uh, yeah, I've got so many doctor appointments that, um- Mm-hmm ... I... Because, what, do you have to come back for a certain amount of time or, write a letter? Basically, it's, it's coming back for a first hearing, bond gets set. We have some- Do I need my attorney with me at that point that you're saying then, or? It, it's... You know, a- again, I'm not the, I'm not the guy who can give you advice on that- Oh, yeah ... because I'm not a- Yeah, I mean, I just- Right ... was wondering 'cause I got, I have an important one I gotta go to- Mm-hmm ... 'cause I having some internal bleeding. Yeah, yeah. And- Generally, uh, it's best that people are represented by counsel sooner rather than later. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause that's- ... Yeah I was gonna say, I've got this internal bleeding going on right now. Mm-hmm. Um, I need to get to this next appointment next week and find out what's going on too, so, um- ... Mm-hmm I suppose I've gotta start finding an attorney first place- Yeah ... and then go from there is about all I can do. Okay. Okay. And then if we can work it around my doctor appointments- Mm-hmm ... 'cause I'm kinda scared of this colon and so. Yep, yep. I agree. Okay. Um, how do you wanna handle the phase two here? So Mary Jo, I have a, uh, order to obtain physical evidence, uh, which we're gonna be taking a, a swab. It's like a big Q-tip. They rub it on the cheek and your mouth. Uh, we're gonna take a set of your fingerprints, and then we're gonna take, um, some pictures of you, just overall pictures of how you are. Don't I have to ask my lawyer first if, if, or is this no choice and are he- Well, this you don't have a choice on. You're- ... you're gonna go with me. Um- Yeah ... but you're coming right back as soon as we're done. Sure. And, uh- This is al- this is already gone in front of a judge. Yeah. So- And I'm gonna... And this is your copy. I'm gonna give it to you. Yeah. I'm just explaining it real, real quick to you, okay? and, and if you have an attorney that you wanna call right now- I don't know of any. I don't know if I need one here- That's- ... if I need one in Wisconsin. Well, I can tell you, I'm not gonna ask you any questions about what these gentlemen are talking to you about. Yeah, yeah. I'm only here to obtain those three things so that I can provide it to them, so that they can take it back for testing on that stuff. I don't need to g- ... consult my lawyer if this is all okay first or not till I know? Yeah, I can, I can, I can tell you, and I'm sure Mark can back this up, this is signed by a judge. Even if you were to call an attorney, he's gonna say, "Go with him and do what he's saying." Oh, okay. That's, that's what I was- ... Yeah concerned is this- Yeah. No, no, it has nothing I guess I don't know much about this stuff. I don't know. Well, we're, well, we're all being- ... Yeah, it's- we're all being recorded. Yeah. Um, whatever we're saying is, is gonna be timestamped forever. We're, we're not gonna mislead you. That, that's- Yeah. No, I just- ... ... that's, yeah yeah, I just, like I said, I don't know the laws. I don't know anything- Yeah ... about this kind of stuff. Yeah. So that's my only Okay. Can I lock the house up real quick? Abs- absolutely. Absolutely. And, and just so you know, we're, I'm not gonna, even though I'm riding with, I'm not gonna be asking you any more questions about the case, okay? Okay. Um, you know, I might try to engage in small talk if you're willing, but I'm not gonna... for the record, I'm not gonna continue the interview, okay? Sure. Okay. Okay. I have to lock this door and then go lock the other one. Do you mind if I walk with you? That's fine. Sure. Okay. So go out this door right here? Yeah, that's the only... I have to lock this one because this one doesn't key lock- Oh, okay ... on the other one. Okay. Very good. Do you, do you wanna go in? Thank you for... Yes, I'll go up too. Thank you for the time you've given us. They drove her fourteen miles to a sheriff's substation, took her fingerprints, her photograph and a swab from her cheek, and drove her home. Investigators spent the next ten months on it. On Monday the thirteenth of November, twenty twenty-three, at half past nine in the morning, they came back. There's nobody up right now. Sheriff's office. Did you try to check the... He's not here. Mary Jo? Yeah. Hey, this is Sergeant Fast. Do you remember me? What? Oh, do you mind if I talk to you for a minute? Um, I got a phone call. Uh, uh, hang- Oh, ... okay uh, next, I'll call you back. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye. Yeah. What did you want? I just need to, to... Can you step out here for a second? Yeah, I'll grab my pajamas on here. Hey, Mary Jo. Do you remember me? I'm Andrew. From Wisconsin. We, we were here last year. I don't know if I do or not. Okay. That's okay. I'm not very memorable, so that's okay. Well, we have a warrant for your arrest Okay? So we're gonna have to end up arresting you, and we're gonna take you down to jail today, okay? I got some appointments I, I supposed to- You're not gonna make those appointments unfortunately. I'm sorry. I know. Um, I gotta call my daughter then and let her know. She's right down the street. We can make that arrangements for you, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. But what we're- But she doesn't have a- ... gonna have to make that call, so we can't have you make that call We have, we have a search warrant for your house, and this is included in the search warrant. So we're gonna secure this as well, okay? Take 10. That's my radio. Oh, I thought my- Yeah, that's my radio ... mine. So this, this detective right here, she's gonna place you in handcuffs, and she's gonna search you, okay? So you are under arrest. Okay. If you can just step down. Cover. Thank you, ma'am. Be careful. Uh, can I sit on something higher? My back. Well, let, let her do what she needs to do first. Oh, okay. Yes. I'm do, I'm gonna cuff you in front, okay? important. Please call." Okay. Okay? I'm a resident of Arizona now. Okay. So. Okay. Gotcha. Do you have anything on you that's gonna poke me or- No I got my pajamas on. Okay. Let me explain to you what's gonna happen, all right? So you're not in the dark on anything, okay? So there's gonna be a unit that comes over. They're gonna transport you down to the jail down in Phoenix, okay? Detective Shamasse is gonna go with you down there. She's gonna make sure you get booked in, okay? You'll see the judge within 24 hours, all right? And then you're gonna go through what's called the extradition process. Arizona is gonna notify Wisconsin that you're in custody, and they'll have 30 days to come pick you up. So sometime within that 30 days- And my daughter's in, I mean, she works for a law- Yeah ... uh, she's something in a- So sometime within that 30 days- ... whatever this one, bond or something like that uh, ... they'll get you, and they'll take you back to Wisconsin ... I think it is. I don't know what the, I don't know what the warrant is. I didn't look at the warrant for the bond. Um, but I think it's- Yeah ... a no bond. So you may stay in custody until you go back to see the judge in Wisconsin, okay? Yeah. All right. Yeah, 'cause I looked into an attorney before, and it's $25,000. I believe you. And I don't have $25,000. about her ... Can I put some clothes on, or do I have to go in my pajamas? Um, I could maybe get you a sweater. Tell me where a sweater is. Okay . But, I mean, they don't look like pajamas to me. You want a sweater? No, I'm not cold. It's just to go with nothing on. I can tell you it's cold in there. You might want a sweater. It's cold in that jail. Yeah. I can go grab you a sweater. Um, I have a flannel shirt I think right in here. Where, where is it at? Are we allowed to go- You're not. I'll go grab it. Is it on the chair? It's a red and white plaid. Yeah, I'll Oh, and I have a Smith & Wesson gun in that cabinet by the chair. It's empty. Okay. It's not loaded, either. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So the only thing the neighbor knows right now is that maybe you have a medical going on, so you know what I mean? don't worry about him. All right, ma'am, you ready to go? Yeah. Your ride is here. Somebody help me up. Yep. Yep. Can I help you up? I'm gonna give you my shirt, though, so you don't have to see what, like, the handcuffs are like, okay? Okay. Just kinda give me- Yep, yep ... help me up. The trial opened in Balsam Lake, Wisconsin, on the twenty-first of May, twenty twenty-four. There was no DNA. There was no gun. The defence told the jury the case was built on rumour and innuendo. The prosecution had the boots, the phone records, the pay-phone call, the friends who said she had followed Jack and Yvonne, and the friend who had burned the clothes. The jury was taken to the building and walked down the stairs. It was a, a woman's size five Arctic Cat boot. There just are not that many women that wear a size five. Mary Jo Bailey did not testify. On Thursday the thirtieth of May the jury went out. It came back in two hours. Guilty of first-degree intentional homicide. I pray now that you wear handcuffs, so that I can break the handcuffs of guilt you once placed on me. I pray Mom can now rest in peace knowing today is the day of your sentencing, the day your life will change just like ours once did. On the second of July the judge gave the only sentence the law of nineteen eighty-five allowed. Life. Under that law she can ask for parole after twenty years. She would be one hundred and one. The judge said that standing at the bottom of those stairs during the trial, you could sense how alone Yvonne had been. The boots are still in the evidence room.