Can you roll down the window, please? What was that? >> Hey guys. >> Officer I work for the police department. >> Oh, we know who you are. >> May I see your license, registration, and insurance, please? >> This is my friend. She's just giving me a ride. >> Okay. >> Um >> May I see your license, registration, and insurance, please? >> This seems like harassment. I'm I'm traumatized, dude. >> I'm stopping her for no front plate. She doesn't have a front plate. That's the reason we stopped. >> It's up here, sir. >> Okay, I didn't see it. >> Now get it. It's up there, sir. >> Okay. >> This is real. I'm doing this because I got a cop. >> Okay. Do you have a license, registration, and insurance on you? >> I don't have it on me. Can I give you like my social security number? I do have a valid license. >> Okay. Can you roll down this window, too, please? >> No, you don't have to do anything. It's traffic stop, right? I'm your lawyer. >> Okay. Do you have insurance for the vehicle? >> I don't have any of it on me. >> I have insurance. >> Okay. >> I do have insurance. >> Can you roll this window down? Ma'am. Can you roll this window down, please? >> You don't have to do anything you want. It's traffic stop, right? >> Okay, this is my traffic stop. You are not involved in this traffic stop, okay? I'm talking to the driver of the vehicle. I'm not talking to you, okay? Can you please roll down this window? Ma'am, can you please roll down this window? Okay. Can you step out of the car? >> Hey. You said please. >> Can you step out of the car? >> It's a traffic stop. >> Why why do I have to step out of the >> I'm asking you to step out of the car. It's a lawful order. Step out of the car. >> Ask your lieutenant. >> Ma'am, step out of the car or I'm going to drag you out of the car. >> Ask her. Let him drag you out of the car. Go. >> Why I don't understand why you're doing this. >> Ma'am, step out of the car. I'm just going to talk to you in the back. >> We're on live. >> Sounds good. Can you step out of the car? >> I prefer not to. >> Ma'am, it's a lawful order. I'm asking you to step out of the car. >> For what? What's the reason? You know why. I need a reason. >> I don't have to give you a reason to step out of the car. >> At this moment, the traffic stop crosses a critical line. The original reason was simple. The officer believed the vehicle had no front license plate. But once the driver pointed to the plate inside the car, the encounter did not end. Instead, the officer ordered her to step outside. Now, during a lawful traffic stop, police generally have broad authority to order a driver out of a vehicle for officer safety, but legal authority and good policing are not always the same question. The officer repeatedly calls it a lawful order while offering almost no explanation that might reduce the driver's fear. Her refusal is legally risky, but her confusion is not difficult to understand. She believes the original problem has already been resolved. The officer, meanwhile, appears to interpret every question as resistance. And that is how ordinary encounters escalate, not always because one side commits a major crime, but because neither side is willing or able to slow the situation down. >> Is that the reason I have to step out of the car? Or I'm not asking you to step >> Ma'am, step out of the car. >> Let me show you what I have. >> Ma'am, step out of the car. >> Hey, who's going to get sued? >> Ma'am, step out of >> the car and make it easier for yourself, please. >> god. Hey, you're live, too, by the way. I'm not getting out of the car cuz you're going to give me a reason why I have to. >> I'm just going to talk to you in the back. That's all I'm doing. I'm not doing anything to you. >> I got my I got plates right there. >> Ma'am, if you want to comply with this and don't want to get in trouble, please step out of the car right now. >> What's what's the problem, officer? >> Otherwise, you're going to get arrested for >> There is no reason to pull me out of the car. >> I'm asking you to step out of the car. >> I'm not getting out of the car. There's no reason to pull me out of the car. >> Okay, you're going to be arrested >> You're going to arrest me for what? There's no reason. The plates right there. >> Okay, I didn't see the plate when you >> And I showed it to you. So, why were you trying to pull me out of the car now? >> It's still a lawful order. It's still a lawful order. Please step out of the car. >> There is no lawful order. >> Ma'am, you're going to get arrested for resisting. >> Uh what am I resisting? I have plates. >> Step out of the car. I'm giving you a lawful order. >> Hey, you shouldn't do nothing, officer. She has a plate. No. >> Ma'am, I'm just saying this is going to be a lot easier for you if you just step out of the car. It is a order for you >> I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want to step out of the car. I'm scared. >> Pennsylvania v. Mimms >> We're scared of you guys. >> Okay, that's fine. You could be scared, but this is involving her. She's the driver of the vehicle, ma'am. >> I don't know what the reason is officer but I'm very uncomfortable right now. >> We're trying to We're not trying to make you uncomfortable, but right now it's your last >> Back off. You're making me very uncomfortable. You pulled me over because of plates and then you showed me my plates. >> It's not properly put on the truck. >> You didn't open my door and then pull me out of my car. >> Pennsylvania v. Mimms allows us to tell the driver to step out of >> I'm uncomfortable right now. I want a sheriff. >> So, we we >> No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. >> Okay, so we have asked you >> We want a sheriff. >> Next, we're going to tell you >> We want a We don't want to like talk to him, dude. I'm scared too. >> I I have to go with this. I I need the sheriff. I need to whoever he's saying. I can't do this. >> I don't know. >> Okay. >> Ma'am I'm ask Ma'am, I'm asking last time. Otherwise, I'm going to pull you out of this car and you're going to get arrested. >> You can make things a lot easier for yourself. >> Do you want to catch a charge right now or do you want to just comply with us? You want to get a charge with resist >> You guys passed the house to turn around and pull me over for no reason. You're going to arrest me for what? YOU GUYS ARE HARASSING ME. >> HELLO, I'm calling 911. >> I'm just asking you to step out of the car. >> I'm calling 911 right now. >> Ma'am, we're going to take your seatbelt off. >> You're not going to touch me. >> No, we are. >> YOU WILL NOT TOUCH ME. >> We are going to. >> I'm calling 911. >> That's fine. Okay. Step out of the car. Ma'am, it's your last chance. Step out of the car right now. >> Hey, don't do it, hey. You didn't do nothing wrong. >> Okay, step out of the car. >> Holy crap. Now what here? Your officers are grabbing people. >> Step out of the car. >> WHAT THE [ __ ] >> STEP OUT OF THE CAR. STEP OUT OF THE CAR. STEP OUT OF THE CAR. There is no cam. Can you back You're being detained right now, ma'am. >> Stay in the car. >> If you are going to arrested for misusing 911. There's no reason for you to be calling 911. Hang up the phone or we're going to >> Ma'am, do you have some ID on you? Do you have anything on you? Do you have an ID on you? >> I don't have anything on me. I don't have an ID. I don't have anything. >> Where's your purse? >> My My purse is over there, but my wallet was in my boyfriend's car. I just came to give him a ride. My boyfriend is back in Spring Grove, where we live. >> Okay. >> Can you get me a hand twice this one? Twice this one? >> Yeah, we'll fix it for you. Which one? >> This one. >> I can put my finger through both of them, ma'am. >> I'm sorry about that. I won't do this again. I won't do this again. I won't I won't do this again. >> Which hand? Which hand? The left one? Okay, hold on. Do not resist. I'm just going to put it back on you. Okay, so we're going to talk to you calm as we can. We want you to be calm with us, too. Trying to be fair with you, okay? Can you come in front of my squad car over here? >> Can I get my shoe? >> Where's your shoe? >> [snorts] >> 6203. Do you have an update on the K9? >> Yeah, I just signed this one. It's fine. Thank you. >> Is this purse yours? Is this your car? [snorts] >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I don't know what's going on. He's recording me. >> Do you have anything on you? I'm not searching you. I'm just going to pat you down. I'm putting you down. Okay. So, the reason we asked you out of the car is cuz one, you didn't give me an ID. I don't know who you are. And I told you this multiple times, ma'am. >> Only after the driver has been physically removed and handcuffed, does an officer clearly explain why they wanted her outside. She had not produced identification, and they did not know who she was. But, that explanation raises an important question. Why was it not communicated this clearly before force was used? Earlier, the officer repeatedly said he did not need to provide a reason. Legally, that may be enough to support an order during a traffic stop. Practically, however, withholding a simple explanation can make compliance less likely, especially when the person already believes she is being targeted. That does not excuse refusing a lawful command, but it also does not erase the officer's responsibility to use communication as a tool of de-escalation. The uncomfortable truth is that both things can be true at once. The driver may have made the situation worse by refusing to exit, while the officers may have escalated an already tense encounter by treating explanation as optional rather than useful. >> I've asked you multiple times >> He pulled me over. >> Do you want to lean against the car? Maybe easier for >> I don't know. >> I've asked you multiple times to step out of the car. >> I know. >> Multiple times I gave you a lawful order. >> horrible spot right now. >> Okay, so what's going on? You can help yourself. >> I don't know. He's got something going on with you guys. You guys got something going on with him. You guys passed us the driveway. We saw you, and as soon as we pulled out, you turned around. There's no way at that point you saw that they didn't have plates. >> cuz I was actually at the front of the I was sitting over here. >> was facing the other way. So, at that point, listen, at that point, there's no way you saw us cuz you were arresting him. He's already warned me. So, I didn't know what to do. I'm not part of this. >> Okay, but is there anything illegal in the car now? >> No. So, you can go search my car. There's nothing illegal. >> Okay, but so, you're giving us permission to search the vehicle then? Okay. Okay. Also, just so you know, I know you said that you had the plate, but it's not fixated properly, okay? It has to be >> It was the one screw broke. >> I I completely understand, but you have to Before you guys can explain that >> No, I showed him right away. >> I I completely understand. What's your first name? I'm sorry. I'm Evan. My name is John, and this is Officer Hummel. >> What am I supposed to do? He's telling me exactly what's going to happen before it happens. But he's keep me what you guys are going to do before you do it, which means there's some harassment going on and I just don't know what >> you. This is a lawful traffic stop. Do you understand that, right? You didn't see a a plate in the front of the car? Well, we did. You told us where it was. It's not supposed to be there. That's all we're trying to do. We're trying to have We're trying to have a conversation with you. But when you get defensive with us and then Like you said, there's a lawful com- lawful order that you were given to you. So, unfortunately, things have to get escalated. That's why we're not We are talking to you, I mean, [ __ ] You haven't seen me do anything wrong. Okay. I mean, I don't know why why this had to be escalated. I know you're saying that you were listening to him, but but if you're pulled over, you should you know, you should probably focus your attention on what the officer is saying. Maybe, but there's a lot of [ __ ] going on and he told me everything that was going to happen before it happened. So, there are some shady cops, okay? I don't know nothing. I just don't know what to do. I don't do trouble. I don't do all of this. Perfect. I believe you. I believe in that you're for any trouble, so He's not going to run the dog around. He's not going to run the dog around. All right, leave everything in the vehicle hopping out. Keep my bag up. Leave everything in the vehicle. So, she gave us consent to search the car. All right, good. We can search the whole vehicle then. I said you didn't have anything in the car that he can search. I didn't have anything. Where we were at, are you okay with us searching your vehicle? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I told you guys what I did. So, we can search the whole vehicle? Yeah, yeah. Is that a yes? Yeah, but Okay, just asking. I thought that was already searched. Like, you guys already had the dog in there and everything. Okay, so you don't have any issues with me searching the vehicle? Okay. What was that? You want to take him for the misuse of 911? >> Yeah. >> So, look at this. >> Yeah, just >> this stuff. >> Yeah. >> And then, if you go on that side, that white container has like white powdery substance, but we'll take him, too. Does he have any warrants or anything else? >> Not that I can find. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> The final escalation happens almost without warning. Officers discuss arresting the male passenger for misuse of 911, and seconds later he is placed in handcuffs. This deserves closer scrutiny. Calling 911 during an encounter with officers is not automatically a crime. The legal issue usually depends on whether the caller knowingly made a false report, used the emergency system without a legitimate purpose, or continued abusing the line after being warned. Here, the passenger appears to believe he is reporting police misconduct. As it happens, that belief may be mistaken, emotional, or legally unsupported, but that is different from intentionally fabricating an emergency. The timing also matters. He has been loudly criticizing and recording the officers throughout the stop. An arrest immediately following that criticism can appear retaliatory, even if officers believe they have an independent legal basis. The key question is not whether he was disrespectful. Disrespect is generally not a crime. The question is whether his actual conduct satisfied every element of the offense they intended to charge. >> Right. Right. All right, put your hands behind your back. You are under arrest. >> What? >> He's going to explain everything to you. >> What did I do, man? >> He's going to explain everything to He's going to explain everything to you. >> Whatever. Y'all are wasting your time with me. I am. It's probably my only way. >> All right, he's going to make sure that you don't have anything that I can stick your poke with. >> You okay? >> I'm great. >> Great. I appreciate it. >> I'll [ __ ] do it. >> Do you have anything on you? >> Should I wait? No, I don't have nothing on me, bro. >> Okay, nothing that's going to poke or stick me? Huh? Do you have anything that's going to poke or stick me? >> Should I wait for you, bro? Should I wait? >> I think you guys have you good. Oh man, you you guys are horrible, bro. Every [ __ ] every dude every every since you ripped me off I swear to god my mom you know I'm sitting something I swear to god shut up. Please what the [ __ ] man this never going to stop screw this up. I don't give a [ __ ] bro. >> All right. All right, cool. >> You're fine, bro. >> You know what the [ __ ] man handle me, man. The [ __ ] [ __ ] man y'all y'all have me taking me from my mom bro. I didn't do nothing, bro. You guys know that. >> Okay, sir. As you can see there's nothing in the back of my car. >> What am I arrested for though, bro? Yes, sir, man. Y'all y'all just whatever, man. >> So Mr. Knighton one will be one thing. >> That's one of the things. >> That's one thing. Bet. And then what's other? >> Okay. >> Care about my mom? >> Mhm. Put your knees together. >> Oh my god. >> We care about everybody, sir. You're being seatbelted in for your safety. >> Okay, sir.