For what? I didn't do anything. I did not bite your What did I do? >> You're obstructing us from doing our job. You're under arrest, okay? >> For what? >> You're under arrest. >> What am I charged with? >> Put your hand behind your back. I just told you that. >> Harassment? >> And I'm walking a little closer so I don't have to yell. I hate yelling at people. I'm not trying to lay hands on you, okay? Uh, the transit guys said it looked like you were about to commit an assault. And if they didn't get in between you and the other guy who called us, then you probably would have laid him out on the ground. Okay, so when we're asking like what did he do? >> What's going on, guys? >> Ashley, your dash cam on now. >> What you yelling at me for? >> Sorry, I'm on the dash cam, I'm on body cam. >> I'm always on. What are you yelling at me for? And tell me what's going on. >> I had a homeless piece of [ __ ] decide >> Stop yelling at me and talk to me. >> All right, sorry. >> What's going on? >> I had some guy, I was talking to him. >> Okay. >> He said, "I'm going to cut your ass." He jumped me. >> Okay. >> So that homeless piece of crap >> Stop yelling, stop yelling, stop yelling. >> decided he wants to jump me. >> Okay. >> And I've been jumped almost twice this month by a piece of a a lead mother >> Okay, you've been jumped before? Did he hit you? >> No, but he was going about to. He was going to jump me in front of these guys. >> Did he put his hands on you? >> No, but he was >> Touch you at all? >> No, he threatened me. Luckily, I didn't step in between them and he would >> What did he say? >> Um, he saw on the camera, he said he was going to punch me and >> No, no, what did he say? Not what happened on camera, what did he say to you? >> He's going to punch you. >> Okay. >> So he already threatened my life. >> All right, where is this guy right now? >> That homeless piece of crap's on on my six. >> Where Where are you going? Okay. All right, well, did the guy holding the orange with the dreads, that's the guy? >> Um, me and him were just talking right in front of my office. He said, "How you doing?" >> Okay. >> He walked right over. This is what I want to do, that's how I'm feeling. >> Okay. >> So just separated him, tried to get He's the one that called the cops. We didn't, but yes, he is being very aggressive, agitated. >> Okay. >> I don't know what provoked him at all. transpired >> before. I walking over and seen, you know, where he was talking to my partner and that gentleman over there. He was aggressive at the time, but that gentleman What's he called? He kept nagging at him. >> He's also really hyped. All right, let me go find out where the other PC is at least. >> I don't know what makes him think that he's homeless or anything like that, but he apparently this gentleman has a track record >> You want to wait? If he's aggressive, you want to wait to see where got PC to talk to him? It's up to you. >> Apparently that gentleman has a track record on the on the old platform and he's done that. >> Okay. All right, so you guys think there a fight would have happened if you hadn't gotten one? >> Absolutely. >> All right. >> That dude would be bleeding on the ground for sure. >> [laughter] >> Let's go. >> Can I help you, sir? >> So this conversation is audio and video recorded. >> Yes, it is. >> So but I want that on so we can kind of, you know, so you Our conversation's on, I want that on. >> We don't have dash cams. We only have body cams. >> Really? >> Yep. The entire Fremont Police Department. >> Okay, so I had a homeless piece of crap threaten my life out here. Said he's going to I'm going to attack me and I was talking to one of these guys, he said he's going to hit you and basically lay hands on me. I said, "Okay, call PD. You're going to try to jump me? I'm going to call PD. I've been already been jumped once almost by a homeless piece of crap, mind you. So I'm a little pissed off. So right now, yeah, I'm just going to call you guys and make sure we, you know, I don't I want to just talk it. >> Yeah. >> So do I just want to be assaulted by some homeless person? NO, I DO NOT. >> OKAY. So what's your first name? >> Phil, p h i l. >> Phil, okay. >> So I'm not going to put up with none of it. >> Okay. >> Not by some homeless piece of crap. Sorry, not going to happen, ain't going to happen. I'm going to be on on everybody's butt. This stuff stops now. Obviously, the city's unsafe when we got homeless drug addicts hanging around the city causing problems. >> Well, sir, being homeless isn't a crime. >> At this moment, the officer makes an important distinction. Homelessness is not a crime. And that matters. Because Phil's account is not limited to what allegedly happened. He repeatedly describes the other man through labels, homeless, dangerous, and possibly a drug addict, as though those labels prove criminal intent, but they do not. Phil may genuinely have felt threatened. His fear should not automatically be dismissed. At the same time, fear can be shaped by previous experiences, anger, and personal bias. Earlier, he admitted that the man never struck him and never physically touched him. What remains is an allegation involving words, gestures, and perceived intent. That creates a crucial question for investigators. Are they evaluating the conduct they can actually prove, or are they being influenced by the way the accused person looks, lives, or behaves? In cases like this, separating evidence from prejudice is not optional. It is the entire foundation of a fair investigation. >> To be homeless. You know we do our best to tackle all the drug problems, right? >> This is kind of getting out of control. >> Okay. >> These people are getting away with all this kind of stuff, thinking that they can do whatever they want, and assault whoever they want, and try to jump somebody in broad daylight. That's why I'm upset. >> I see you pulled out your ID for me. Can I see that, please? Thank you. >> yes, sir. >> Okay. Were you hurt or assaulted today, or is it just the threat of >> up on me. Say, "Hold on, bro. You you you said you were going to hurt me." He was going to hurt me. >> Okay. >> He had to Somebody had to step in the way. There's cameras all through this place. They saw the conversation. He was ready to assault me and jump me. So, you know, like that's an automatic for >> It was that gentleman right there that they're talking to. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> You want to get your sergeant down here, so then he can decide if he wants to decide if he wants to press charges with this guy. >> Oh, so we don't decide that. Sergeant doesn't decide that, and I'm I'm a corporal, so I would be a supervisor. >> Yeah, I want >> We don't decide that. >> I'm definitely pressing charges on you. >> Okay. Well, not to do that, you're going to have to provide a statement and >> that. I will gladly do that. I will gladly put a statement out. >> Okay. >> How's it going? >> What's up, man? What's going on with with this guy? What's happening with him? What called us out here said there was a disagreement between you and him? You didn't put hands on him? All right. Was it going to get there? Was it going to get physical between you and him? You what? You didn't? All right. Now, what's going on? >> I'm not trying to take sides. People say stuff to me that makes me mad. What did you do? I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from. >> The last time I was out here, um something similar happened where we got a guy who >> to ask ask really specific questions, so sorry. What did he say to you exactly? >> He said he was going to hurt me. He raised his fist and he was going to punch me. He So, he was going to hurt me. >> Okay. Is that like exactly We are We're trying to develop what happened here. What What did he >> So, I was So, let me walk you through it. >> to do a quick got to ask you quick questions. >> Okay. So, he was going to hurt me. That's what he raised his fist. You know, obviously going to hurt me. >> or did he say it? >> He said that and I'm going to Here it is, guys. >> make any gestures >> Yes, he did. He went right So, the security guy was right next to me. I was talking to him and he said, "I'm going to punch this guy and you know, I'm going to hurt him." So, I was like, "Wait, you're going to try You're going to jump me for for what reason you're going to jump me? Cuz of my I was just saying, you know, I didn't really say anything to this guy. I was talking to the security guy said, "Hey, I'm I'm okay." He said, "The next thing you know, I'm I'm going to punch this guy." I was like, >> Did he make any physical advances toward you or >> what Yeah, like this. >> How did it make you feel? >> Threatened. >> Did you think he was going to assault you? >> Yes. I put my life in danger. Yes. >> Just trying to see that. >> Okay. >> All right. You don't have to talk to us, but I'm going to tell you what we heard from the other people involved. And I'm walking a little closer so I don't have to yell. I hate yelling at the I'm not trying to lay hands on you. >> Okay. >> Uh the transit guys said it looked like you were about to commit an assault. And if they didn't get in between you and the other guy who called us, then you probably would have laid him out on the ground. >> Okay. >> So when we're asking like what did he do to piss you off that much, that's that's why I'm asking those questions. >> He grabbed my hand. >> Huh? >> He grabbed my I mean, it is something. It's just my hand. >> Okay. >> It's on my hand. Yeah, that's all I got to say. >> Okay. Well, I'm glad they did get in between you because I don't want to see anybody have to go to jail. I'm not sure of the conversation going on over there. They may ask you to leave transit property and not come back. >> You know what I mean? Some of the transit uh employees here just sit there and told me they saw the whole situation escalated and what people were were were were doing and how how it went down. They don't believe that I was in the wrong. So I mean, I I don't believe that it's my fault. >> That's not what they told us. We got cameras, so I can't I mean, I can I can tell you whatever I want to tell you, but the camera's going to prove me right or >> Well, I can't prove that I'm saying that's what they said. Right up to the individual with your camera and he can reiterate what I just said that he said to me. So either way, it's like I'm not fixing my mouth to tell you lies. >> Well, you're a liar who assaulted people. I asked you, but you don't have to talk about it. But I did ask you. You didn't want to tell me. So all I got to go off is what the transit guys told me and what the guy who called told me. You know, you're within your rights to not give your side, but if you don't, then I don't know where you're coming from and I I can't try to balance that out and figure out who's actually in the wrong. But I'm glad nobody touched each other. That'll make it more difficult. >> Here, the investigation reaches a difficult imbalance. The accused man is told that he does not have to explain himself. That is true. But the officer also makes clear that without his version, the available story is being built almost entirely from the complainant and the transit employees. Silence, however, is not proof of guilt. A person may refuse to speak because he is frightened, confused, distrustful of police, or simply unable to communicate clearly under pressure. At the same time, officers cannot ignore multiple witnesses who say they saw him posture aggressively and move toward a confrontation. That is why the surveillance footage matters so much. Witnesses can misunderstand movements, memories can shift. People who observe the same event may interpret it differently. Video may not capture every word or every angle, but it can test the most important claims. Who approached whom, how close they came, and whether the alleged threat appeared immediate. Until that evidence is reviewed, certainty would be premature. >> Security is curious. They were hearing and all this. >> Yeah, but they said they said they intervened. They said this guy was kind of in a position of posture that he was going to fight, and they fully believed that if they had not intervened, he would have assaulted the other guy. >> Yeah, and he said he felt fear. He said he was threatened and said this point of peace and harassment against this guy. >> Okay. >> He's not identifying himself. >> He's not identifying. Just refusing kind of give us the full story as to what's happening. Doesn't really want to talk, but Nick's doing his best to kind of talk to him. We haven't told him he's detained yet. We haven't really [snorts] done anything other than just try to ask what's going on. >> Okay. Cool. Well, I mean, if he doesn't want to give us his name, >> No. >> we should try to ask him who he is and who he is >> Yeah. >> Maybe unless you get to say hey dude, Mike, you're not free to leave and >> Nope, we haven't done that yet. So, I just made sure I put locks on the north side just in case. >> Well, so security saw that he was going to assault him. This dude's I mean, obviously he's got a lot going on, but >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cool. >> So, what do you want to do? You want to arrest him right now? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Gentlemen, help me out one time. I'm trying to go >> This is the turning point. In a matter of seconds, the encounter moves from voluntary questioning to a decision to arrest. The officers appear to rely on several factors. Transit employees say they witnessed an aggressive posture, the complainant says he feared an assault, and security personnel believe they prevented the situation from becoming physical. Taken together, those details may support the officers' belief that a criminal threat occurred, but there is another detail worth examining. Moments earlier, the officers acknowledge that the man had not yet been told he was detained or that he was not free to leave. They also discuss his refusal to identify himself as possible obstruction, even though they question whether a clear detention had actually been communicated. That distinction matters. Refusing a voluntary conversation is not necessarily the same as obstructing a lawful detention. From this point forward, the original allegation and the man's reaction to being arrested become two separate issues, and the struggle that follows risks overshadowing the evidence that caused the arrest in the first place. >> That's That's a cool little station, right? The A-line. >> Hello, Boston. >> All right. Oh, you don't know anything about You don't know anything about >> know about anything. >> No, the guys in the green shirts down there, they >> Right. >> Yeah, man, go ahead. Go ahead. Get out Get out Get out of here. Get out of here. Go ahead. Go ahead. Get Go ahead. Move. >> Right here? >> Yeah, go ahead. That's perfect. Yeah, then go. >> [laughter] >> Oh, [ __ ] me. I was just trying to get information. >> I don't know anything. I don't mind talking to anybody. >> You're doing great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> Right now you're under arrest, okay? >> I didn't harass anybody. But I didn't harass anybody. >> Time out. Stop. >> Woah. Woah. Woah. >> Woah. Woah. >> didn't talk to me. >> I am. We're putting you in handcuffs cuz >> Yes, if you want to advise me of anything >> We're not going to talk about it right now. We're going to put you in cuffs, okay? >> Stop squeezing your hands together. >> We're not going to talk about it right now. We're going to >> Come on. Come on. Dude, look at you. You're outnumbered. There's a lot of us here. It's only going to get worse. It's not going to get better, okay? You're under arrest. >> I shouldn't be under arrest for anything. >> going to talk about it, man. We're going to put you in cuffs, okay? >> Don't fight us. >> What do you mean, fight? I didn't quit. I didn't do anything. >> lawyer later. >> What? >> Right now. >> Come on. >> Just go with it. >> Go with it. >> Yeah, just go with it. Come on. >> Listen, let me just go my way. I'll get I'll leave I'll leave the What do you mean it's too late for what? >> You're under arrest. >> Open your hands. Come on. Open your hands. Open your >> Why? >> We're not going to talk about it. Open your hands. >> I don't understand why. >> Open your hands. >> You're making this worse. >> Open your hands. Here we go. All right. All right. Hey Nick, you want to lift her backpack up for me? You're good. You're good. You're good. We might have to cut these straps. Yeah, we'll get the cuffs off first. There you go. All right, we got a gauge. We got proper fitted. We got double locked. All right, let's wait for the double lock. >> Stop pulling away. >> Double locked. So now we're going to cut these bags off cuz you were uncooperative. We got to get these backpacks off. Okay? I got them. Yeah. What's your name, miss? Why are you fighting with us? Why are you fighting with me? >> You're under arrest. >> For what? >> I just told you harassment. We told you that like five times. >> So, this >> all the security guards and that guy is saying all the same thing. If you want to provide a statement, that's fine, but you resisting like that is going to lead to additional charges like obstruction or resisting arrest. >> Security? >> Yes. >> Again? >> A little bit more. Yeah, right there is fine. >> All right, cool. >> All right, let's frisk him real quick. >> handcuffs. Let my [ __ ] wrist I'm in handcuffs. Let my wrist go. Why are you putting pressure on my [ __ ] >> What wrist? Whose wrist? >> My wrist. Who What What other wrist do you have in your in your hand? Get your >> Stop. Stop. >> told you stop bending my wrist. >> As long as you're tense, man. As long as you're tense, I'm going to hold a tight grip, okay? If you relax, I relax. >> I'm in some [ __ ] handcuffs. >> Yeah. Which we struggled to get you in. >> So, and now you're bending my wrist for what reason? >> holding it. >> You're not my my telling me to stop. All right. >> You want to assist her walk up there? We can walk. Yeah, let's walk him. Come on. Come on. There you go. >> Stop biting my wrist. >> This way. All right. Go ahead and face the car. Face the car. Real wide. All right, I got him. You want to go ahead and do a leg search? >> Yeah. >> STOP BITING MY WRIST. >> LOOK, we got him. He's got a bracelet. Okay. All right, go ahead and get in the car. >> STOP BITING MY WRIST. >> LOOK, WE'RE GOING TO LET GO OF THE WRIST and you get in the car. There you go. You got >> Where is your >> All right. There you go. You got a live one, too? >> Yeah, it's down. >> All right. Thank you. There you go. You buckle in.