So, you're saying the red purse in the back with the powder is not yours? >> Oh, I don't I don't have a No, I do not have a red purse, sir. I swear to I No, I do not. >> Okay, it's not yours at all. >> No, you're right back there on the seat. >> A store employee asks a shopper for a receipt at the door, then follows her into the parking lot. The answer is, "Leave me alone." And a waiting car takes her away. Soon, police have that car stopped. Each step that follows raises a legal question the footage cannot answer. >> Okay. I'm sorry. What did you say? >> The skinny Santa. >> I'm coming. I'm coming. >> Santa. >> That's fantastic. Kevin. >> All right. So, what's going on today? >> All right. That's what was in her cart that she walked out with. >> All right. >> I followed her out. Um, so then she left the cart and grabbed >> a six-ack of wine and two other bottles. >> Okay. >> Started walking around till the car picked her up. >> All right. Do you have any pictures? Yep. >> Okay. So >> So there's one, two. >> All right. Can you send them to this? >> I don't think you need that one, right? I'll get >> She's got her head behind the car. >> I've got >> Yeah, just a few. >> One, two, three, four other ones. >> Yep. Perfect. >> Five other ones. >> We can figure out how to do it here. >> And then um were was there anyone else in the car that was involved or? >> Yeah, there was a black female with glasses that picked her up. >> Okay. Okay. So, do you think the driver had anything to do with it or >> I don't know. She was like in no hurry. Most of them are like >> Yep. >> try to peel out and she sat in the line. >> Okay. >> To turn left beside gut go and she sat at the intersection to turn left for >> 3 4 minutes. >> Do you So, this is all the stuff that was in her cart, correct? So that's what was in her cart. >> Um when we followed her around the parking lot, she tried to pick up both the wine carriers and broke open. >> Okay. >> So she grabbed the other six-pack and two bottles of wine. >> Okay. >> And hopped in the car with that. >> At 8:30 down the gas 68 on three. >> Sorry. So she should have eight bottles of wine that she actually took out of the car. >> Do you guys have a patrol phone on you? >> They are out with them now. So, I'm just uh >> sending them the pictures so that they can verify it's the right person. Um, >> these photos are headed to officers who never saw a theft. So, can a witness alone justify the stop? Under Navaret versus California, a firstirhand report made soon after an event can supply reasonable suspicion for a traffic stop. An identified employee with photos is a stronger source than an anonymous caller. What officers may do with the people inside the car is a separate question. >> So, we have all of this and then what did she actually get away with. It looks like there was a bunch of uh like bath and body stuff in the car as well. Um she said that she got it from here. No. >> Well, she did. She I mean she could have made two trips out. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. >> So, I I saw her here in bakery. >> Okay. saw the two things of wine. She didn't look like a >> Yeah. >> wine drinker. So, I watched her. She messed around in produce for a while. I stood right here. >> She came back through bakery, kicked right through here and out the door. >> Okay. So, >> soon as she got out the the second lobby entrance and I asked her if I could see her receipt. >> Yep. >> She said, "Leave me alone." >> I said, "Well, I'm going to follow you. I want my just want my stuff back." >> Yeah. >> Kept going with it out >> probably about out about out just past the island. That's where she tried to >> lift it out and then she walked clear around and up here and got picked up right up front. >> Okay. >> Um like in the first spot the lady pulled in and she hopped in and then they took off. >> Perfect. Um >> so my LP can get you any video you need. >> Perfect. Video would be good. Um >> Nick Cullivan. >> I don't know if you need his name. >> All right. Perfect. >> He has a team of detectives that will come and pull video and send them wherever you want them. Perfect. Okay, we will make contact with him and let's see. Can I get a written statement from you? All right, perfect. I'm going to run out to my car. Thank you. Perfect. >> Can I just print this see what she did get out with? >> Perfect. >> Do you need a picture of this stuff, too? >> Um, this is really what we need. So, I will be right back. >> Sounds good. Sounds like the body care stuff you had came from Walgreens. So, I'm going to head over there. Um, let me get you a card with the incident number on it. >> Yeah, we do you guys know you know Aura. >> Hm. >> Aura. >> So, it's an a loss prevention tool that we put the case in and it supposedly connects. >> Very nice. >> All the other cases. So, I'll put this into Aurora with everything. >> Yeah. >> And then that's what our detectors use to track the case. >> Perfect. >> And then they I think they have a way to see if she's done other giant eagles. >> Yeah. We don't really have any outside. Is that going to be an issue? >> No. So, here's a situation. We were investigating another theft that occurred >> here. >> Um, no. At Giant Eagle and we had the lady stopped and um they had a large quantity of Bath and Body stuff >> and >> from here. You think? >> It's from here. Yeah. >> Who can I ask who she looks like out of curiosity? So, tall, thin, black female, white tank top, pink shorts. >> Is she wearing a wig? >> Possibly. I'm not sure >> cuz we've had a lady I might be able to identify her that's that came in literally yesterday. She was wearing an overcoat. Kind of looked like >> older kind of disheveled. Not like disheveled, but like >> So, this probably would have been today uh before around >> what time? >> 1:00ish. >> Okay. I don't I wasn't here for that. >> Okay. >> Manager to the front for assistance, please. Manager to the front for assistance. Um I would go outside. Is she out out in our parking lot right now? >> No. No, she's she is on her way to um our police department to be booked. >> Gotcha. >> So, yes, we have her um >> as a suspect in in another theft which we arrested her on. >> I was like, if you have a picture of her, I can probably tell. So, a lady that was here earlier today got arrested for theft of Giant Eagle and she stole stuff from us too. So they have all the stuff she stole and they're wanting to talk to you. >> She's already being booked. So >> Mhm. >> Yep. So this probably would have happened between noon and 1 today. >> Okay. >> So we had a lady that was uh shoplifting at Giant Eagle and we have arrested her. And in the car they found a large quantity of Bath and Body stuff. It's not the person I was thinking of. She didn't have a car. >> She It was She wasn't driving. She had somebody come pick her up. >> Yep. So, >> she have like a shopping cart. >> No, I'm >> not sure. >> Okay. Different person then. [snorts] >> Sorry. >> So, um I actually think I've seen the person you're talking about as well, >> probably. >> Yes. So, um they arrested her and uh came out that the Bath and Body stuff was from here. >> Okay. So, have you guys had any any reports of thefts or anything today that occurred or >> No, but it's just been two of us all day. So, there have been times that we have and and we're told we can't stop and go, you know, is what we're basically told. >> Yes, that's very common, >> you know. So, >> um >> so nobody has said anything. Nobody but like I said during that time frame very more than likely we were both >> okay. >> Trying to do >> Sure. Absolutely. >> Thanks. >> So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to provide you my contact information and the case number. So, if you guys go in and review videos and see, you know, and I'll also show you her picture. Um, she is pretty distinctive in what she's wearing. >> Uh, so this is okay. I don't remember seeing her in here today, but that doesn't mean she wasn't. >> Okay. So, >> okay. Okay. That's over. >> Yep. That's over a giant eagle. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yep. So, I will give you the uh >> Yeah. Give me the information and then we can >> Perfect. >> Like I said, I'm not aware of when it would have, you know, happened, but >> we've just been all over >> if you see anything. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. Excuse me, sir. >> Do you have your ID on you by chance? >> I'm What's that? Okay, that's fine. Do you have a roll down the back window? Ma'am, do you have an ID on you by chance? You don't? Okay, I'm going to have her step out. Go ahead. Step out for me real quick. >> Yes, ma'am. All right. You're being detained right now for a theft. Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. Come on over here with me. >> You're just detained right now. You're not under arrest. >> The officer draws a line between detained and under arrest, but does the law draw the same line? Terry versus Ohio allows police to hold a person briefly on reasonable suspicion, a lower bar than probable cause. The hold must stay short and focused or it becomes an arrest, whatever it is called. The next words she hears are the ones a court would study most closely if you would please. And I'll be right back with >> What's your ID with you? What's your name? >> What is it? >> How do I spell it? >> Young like just come and spell. When were you born? >> So just before we talk, you have the right to remain silent as we say will be used to go through the court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have them present with you while you're being questioned. You cannot afford to hire a lawyer. One will be okay to represent you before any question. If you wish, you can decide anytime to exercise these rights, not answer any questions. Speaking of students, do you understand those rights as I've read them to you? >> Okay. So, that being said, what happened up at Giant Eagle? >> The warning ends. The reply sounds like no. And the questions begin, so is the waiver valid? Miranda versus Arizona requires that a person in custody be warned and that any waiver be knowing, intelligent, and voluntary. If she did not understand the warning, a court may keep her answers out of the prosecution's case. Everything she says from here forward carries that question with it. >> How How are the other two people involved in this? Did they know that you were taking it? >> You didn't plan on it. This car didn't work, so it went ahead. >> That you didn't plan it out with them to pick you up the front door or anything like that? No. >> Who are they to you? >> Um, >> neighbors. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, I'm just going to tell you right now you're under arrest for Okay. Um, work out the details here in a minute. See what all we're going to do. Okay. >> Oh, no way. >> Not at this point. unfortunately. So, I want to take a look at some things and uh we'll decide how we're going to go proceed. Are you cool enough in there? >> No. >> Let me turn up the air. >> What's that? >> I haven't decided that yet at this point. We'll see >> where all this stuff come from. >> Yeah. They're not Those are not from CO. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's it's just odd that there's such a pile of the exact same stuff. >> They They don't They're not from They're not >> But did you have it with you when you got in the car today? >> Yeah, I already have those. What's What's with the white powder and stuff in the cut straws? What's that white powder? >> Where? >> In the bag. >> In what bag? I don't have a bag of powder. I have a bag of powder. >> No. >> No, I do not. I don't know. I have a bag of powder. >> Okay. So, you're saying the red purse in the back with the powder is not yours? Oh, I don't I don't I don't know. No, I I'm not that bad person, sir. I swear to God I didn't. No, I do not. >> Okay. Okay. Not yours at all. >> No. >> Right back there on the seat. >> They must back I do not have a red purse. I swear. >> What color is yours? >> I don't have yours with me. >> You don't have one at all? >> No. >> No. Where do you carry all your money and stuff? >> Um I have a little um wallet. >> You got a little wallet? >> Yeah, I should have been in the car. airports. >> Well, sometimes. >> Yeah. You didn't bring your bag at all? >> No. In a red purse. I think that white girl had that red purse. I think she had a red purse. >> Okay. >> Like that's what the >> Okay. >> So, I'll give you an opportunity to be honest. Okay. All right. And like it goes a long way with you. Okay. That red horse is not >> I I don't want to talk about the red horse. >> Um I have reason to believe that that body washing stuff came from Walgreens. >> Okay. I'm going to send an officer over there and we're going to go through the whole camera. I got the timeline. Did it come from Walgreens? >> It did. You took it from Walgreens. It >> huh? Yes. It did. Thank you. >> Okay, that weighs a lot with me. Okay. Okay. So, here's the deal. Since you want to um work with us and not make us run all over the city looking for things, we're going to do you a solid give you a summon. >> An appeal to honesty, an admission, then a summon instead of jail. So, was that admission voluntary? Colorado versus Connelly holds that coercive police activity is a necessary predicate to finding a confession involuntary. Urging honesty is generally allowed, while a promise of leniency made to get an answer draws closer review. What the driver was telling a second officer during all of this is still to come. Was that going to court? >> Yeah. >> I just I got a funeral. I know I shouldn't have stole homeless and like I've seen your friend and I don't want to go there [ __ ] up. So like >> uh we are going to have to take you back and book you though and do all that. at a at the PD here in Westerville. So, but you're not going to jail unless you you know, you're not going to jail. So, you want to help you want to be honest and help us out and save us all the time and tell us that come from Walgreens, that's fine. We're going to take it up there. They might want a separate theft charge to show up to court for. It is what it is, but it's not jail, which is >> which is thankful to you because if you would have went to jail, you would have been to gone to Delaware. >> Yeah, you stole in Delaware County. So, >> yes, me. So, bear with us. We're going to get you back there. Pictures, prints, do all that. You know what I mean? But it's it's better than taking the ride. You know what I'm saying? >> Which one's hurting you? >> This one. How's that? >> Better strap in here. See what we have to say. How are you, ma'am? Have driver's license on you? >> Awesome. Perfect. Thank you very much. >> Mr. Roman, where are you coming from? >> I'm coming from the grocery store. >> What grocery store? >> I went to go walk. >> Okay. >> And I took this young lady on a trip to the market. >> To where? I'm sorry. >> To the market. >> Can you roll down your back right away, please? >> Thank you. >> You took her where? I'm sorry. >> To the market. >> To the what market? >> This. Okay. Gotcha. Thank you. That's uh Did you go inside with her? >> I did not go inside. >> Okay. All right. >> I went to get gas and Okay. All righty. Good deal. That's uh Well, I think she did something she shouldn't have done in the market. Okay. Do you know her or >> I don't know her well at all. >> You don't? Okay. What's that? >> She's a friend of a friend. >> Okay. She asked for a ride. >> I gotcha. Okay. Gotcha. That's uh Well, that's Did she carry anything out of the market? >> I saw >> sometimes >> somewhat. >> I saw her. >> Yeah, that's Do you know where they're at in the car? You don't have to reach for them. I'm going to assume they're underneath that jacket. Okay, perfect. I'm going to go ahead and take that one from you real quick. Okay. The problem is uh she left with all these things and didn't pay for them. So, that's the problem. So, all right. Just just sit tight for a second here. You don't have to hand him out. I'm going to uh Is your car unlocked? >> Yeah. >> I'm going to open the back door and just set him in there real quick. Okay. All right. And the car is yours, ma'am? >> The car. >> The car is yours. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Good deal. Sit tight for me for a second. Okay. >> Yes. >> Problem. >> You mind if I see that? >> So, did you go inside and buy some stuff then? We didn't go in with her. >> You didn't go in with her? >> Our own stuff. >> Okay. >> We didn't go in with her. >> Did you pay for all this stuff, too? >> You bought this stuff? Okay. >> Okay. With us taking the bottles out of the back of the car here? Definitely. >> Okay. Thank you. Do you mind turning off the car for me? >> Yeah. >> There is uh quite a bit of other stuff back here, too. And maybe you can help us with uh what's on the back floor. There's all kinds of uh like deodorant and uh bag. >> Say again. I'm sorry. >> The bag back there. >> Yeah, that's uh kind of what uh what it's looking like. >> She just grabbed What did you just grab? >> Is that Whose bag is that? >> Whose bag? >> Is that her bag? >> So, you don't have to open it. Just Is that hers? Just go ahead and set that back there if you would please. >> Yeah, that's her bag. Just set back here. I'll take it. >> Thank you. >> I'm not in trouble for her, am I? >> Not right there. >> You didn't take anything, did you? >> No, I didn't know. >> All right, ma'am. >> So, you don't know any of what that stuff in the back is from that's not yours? >> No, I barely know. >> Okay. No, you're right. As of right now, you're not in trouble or anything. What we're going to do, though, is I'm still going to have you guys step out of the car for a second. We're not you're not under arrest. I'm just going to have you stand over here so we can go through the car and check for other stuff that she may have stolen and stuff. Okay. >> No warrant and no request for permission, only an announcement. So, can officers search the whole car? United States versus Ross holds that probable cause to search a lawfully stopped vehicle reaches every part that may conceal the object. That reach includes bags and containers whoever in the car happens to own them. What officers ask about next is tied to the driver's own bag. >> Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Okay. Like I said, I don't As of right now, I have no reason to think you're in trouble for anything whatsoever. So, um let's we'll I want to get out of the road a little bit more. Okay. >> No, I want you to stand over by the wall. I don't want you to get hit by a car or anything. Okay. >> Your shoes there. >> So, um Well, I want to get out of the road a little bit more. Okay. >> Yeah. I was going to like Can I put my stuff in my bag? >> You just leave your stuff there, ma'am. If you would step out for me. >> I want you to stand over by the wall. I don't want you to get hit by a car. Okay. >> You got shoes there. Probably going to want those. >> It's going to be hot. >> So, >> and is this your receipt here? >> Yeah. She didn't give us um I'm sorry. >> That's one of my receipts. >> One of them. Okay. >> Yeah. And she gave us this. She didn't She gave me this good to her boyfriend for her boyfriend. >> Just go. >> Yeah. Just set it back there so it doesn't spill. Don't turn it upside down. You set it upside so it doesn't spill on her floor. There you go. Thank you. >> You got anything in your pockets that I need to know about? I'm sorry. You just take your hands out of your pockets. What's that? >> I mean, well, you'd be surprised. I've arrested a lot older people with guns, stuff that they shouldn't do. So, um, officer Hill's going to take a look through the car, just look for anything else that she might have put in the car that was stolen or anything like that that the return to us. >> What What else did she hand you besides that bottle? >> That's the only thing. So, everything in the front seat here is yours? >> Yes, mine. >> Okay. None of that deodorant, body care stuff is yours in the back? No. >> Is there anything else in the car? that >> you should know about anything. >> Okay. But >> she was nice. >> Uhhuh. >> I wanted to get her down. >> There you go. >> No weapons in the car, anything like that that you know of that I need to know about. I'm sorry. Shake your hands out of your pocket. There's no weapons in the car or anything like that on you or anything. >> 59. I don't have no weapons. >> What's that? >> I'm 52. >> Okay. I mean, well, you'd be surprised. I've arrested a lot older people with guns and doing stuff that they shouldn't do. >> So, um, Officer Dehill is going to take a look through the car. Just look for anything else that she might have put in the car that is stolen or anything like that that's of a concern to us. Um, >> what else did she hand you besides that bottle? >> That's it. That's the only >> That's the only thing. So, everything in the front seat here is yours. >> That is mine. >> Okay. >> Do you know did she come out with all that stuff out of Giant Eagle? Do you know? When I drove from the gas station was I was driving >> I saw her walking towards me >> with the bottles. >> Bottles. She had nothing else in her hands. >> That was a Kroger marketplace. >> What's that? >> That was a Kroger emergency. >> Kroger marketplace where she came out. All that stuff. Which Kroger marketplace? >> The one over there by Polaris. >> The one like across the street from the Giant Eagle. >> We didn't even Giant Eagle we went to was one down on campus. That was earlier today. >> Okay. We just she had a good pet store. >> Mhm. >> She went to the marketplace. I went in the marketplace to pee and that's I came. >> So where and that's where she came out with all that body care. Where was that marketplace at? >> So there's a couple Kroger's on like Kroger marketplace. >> Yes. >> Market district on it. >> It's by the go. >> Okay. So the wine >> there's a Walgreens. >> Yeah. Okay. So that's a Giant Eagle marketplace. Okay. Um, I thought >> So that's where she came out with the wine and the body care products. >> Yes, >> she came out with both from there. Okay. >> 568 on three. Sorry. 607 on three. There's also a large amount of like body care, deodorant, shampoo type products that the driver is stating that she also got from Giant Eagle. So, if you could call LPS and see if they could start looking into that while you were heading that way. >> I'm thinking I ran a light or something. >> I know. I thought >> Thank you. Just stay right here for me. >> Did she use these bags to come out Giant Eagle with all the body care stuff? >> You know, I really wasn't paying attention. >> But did she have it all in bags of some sort? You had a bag. Carry a bag. I don't We don't really >> Did she have a bag? And then because she also has the wine. Uh was she carrying like the box wine thing? >> She was carrying the wine. >> Carry some of the wine. >> What bags they were? >> The bags. >> She had bags and the wine >> and the wine. >> Okay. Okay. >> What she said you guys when we were behind you. >> Huh? >> What did she say as we were trying to pull you over? She said nothing. She didn't say anything. >> No, >> cuz she was Could you tell what she was doing in the back? Cuz she was moving around a ton in the back of the car while we were >> Okay. >> We really thought she did a traffic machine. I was like, "Did you >> I thought I was getting a traffic ticket." Yeah. >> Where else did you guys go today? >> She wasn't with us when we were at store earlier today. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How do you know her? >> Friend of a friend. We don't know her that well. She's a friend of a friend. She just happened to ask us. We told her we were going shopping. We do. She said take me to the store. You guys >> giant this dress. >> Yeah. Like >> So Giant Eagle was the only place you guys stopped with her. >> Yeah, I think so. You know, Walgreens. >> Yeah. But before I went to take the before I dropped her off, >> she went to Walgreens. >> Okay. >> Oh, you were at Walgreens as well? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Did she have those bags with her at Walgreens? >> What do you mean she used your bag at Walgreens? >> Walgreens. >> What's that? >> She has to use my bag at Walgreens. >> What? She bring out Walgreens. Uh, I think the the uh deodorants and the the shower gel and all that stuff. >> We said that came out of Giant Eagle just a minute ago. >> Well, I think that alcohol did, but she went to Walgreens before that and that came out. >> Well, I'm guessing she didn't just she didn't stash her crack pipes and stuff in it, did she? >> I don't know. She used my mine. >> I mean, do you do you have a prescription for Vance? It >> wasn't mine. It was not yours. Oh, it's in your bag that was with you and all that. So, you're saying she went into my bag? Yeah, my bag was in the back seat. It >> was like I'm like that guy. >> Um, all right. Hang tight for one second. >> Wow. >> Actually, I left my notepad. Do you mind getting off her information? >> Control schedule. Okay. >> All right. Your name, ma'am? >> Mr. Do you have a phone number you can be reached at? >> My phone is broke right now. I'm waiting for the submission card to come through the mail. >> Okay. All righty. What would that phone number be? >> I don't know. >> Okay. All right. be water in there and I don't have any unfortunately. >> I'm sorry. >> I just I >> No more rides for people, right? >> No, not letting them use my bag. >> Oh, >> I don't appreciate your >> I'm sorry. >> I'm on this addiction. >> I got you. >> You clean now, >> huh? Are you clean? >> Well, I work for you. >> Oh, you work for him? I'm sorry. >> Oh, okay. Well, you know, >> I mean, I'm not her phone number, address. >> She don't have a phone. >> No phone. No phone. >> Not right now. I just >> She's waiting on her card. >> What's the best phone number to contact you at? Even if it's her phone number or something like that. >> I have. >> Thank you. All right, you guys can have a seat in the car and turn it on and turn on the air conditioner if you want, but don't go anywhere yet. Okay, >> I don't want to get my license. >> What's that? >> My license. >> We've still got it. >> Okay, >> just have a seat in the car. Quick, I guess I have one question. >> Sure. >> At Walgreens, did you guys all go in or did she just go in? >> She went in by herself. >> She took that bag in. >> My bag is. >> Okay. >> That's why I went straight back in. I grabbed her and like not in my bag. If that's if that's the case, they'll probably if there we have an officer going to Walgreens right now to review that. If that's the case, we'll probably do nothing with that stuff in the bag. It'll just be destroyed. Um if not, you'd hear something from us at some point. Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> The stop ends quietly and it leaves behind lessons that apply well beyond one parking lot. When a store employee asks for a receipt at the exit, the request alone is not a detention. Walking away does not end the matter because the employee can still watch, take photos, and call the police. In many states, a merchant with probable cause may also hold a suspected shoplifter for a reasonable time. A calm answer at the door usually costs less than a police stop a few minutes later. When an officer uses the word detained, the person is not free to leave, even without an arrest. The useful question at that moment is short and polite and it asks whether this is a detention or an arrest. The answer sets the rules for how long the hold may last and what must be explained. When a rights warning is read quickly at the roadside, the only safe reply to the final question is an honest one. A person who does not understand should say so clearly and ask for the warning to be explained. A person who wants a lawyer has to say that out loud because silence alone does not stop the questions. Answering even one question after the warning can be treated as giving those rights up. When an officer says that honesty will go a long way, that is an interview technique, not a binding agreement. Officers can choose a summon over jail, but prosecutors decide which charges go forward. An admission about a second incident can become a second charge, even when the first one ends without jail. When a driver gives a ride to someone barely known, the driver's car becomes part of whatever that passenger does. A search for a passenger's stolen goods can expose everything else in the vehicle, including the driver's own belongings. Knowing who is in the car and what they carry into it is the only real protection. Nothing in this footage involved force, raised voices, or a chase, and that is part of its value. Most encounters with the law look like this one, decided by a few sentences spoken at the roadside. The outcome of this case was not known at the time of this analysis.