How would you feel if I told you that your DNA matches DNA that we found on Mindy's body? >> I'd be like, "That wasn't true." So, I know I wasn't there. So, >> at approximately 1:00 a.m. on September 13th, 2006, Mindy Morgan Stern was found dead in her apartment by her friend Tony. From the exact moment the police arrived at the scene, a manhunt began. But little did they know they would actually be hunting one of their own. Mindy Morgan Stern was a senior attending the Valley City State University in North Dakota and came from a farming family that resided almost 200 miles to the west in Little Blue Salem. She lived off campus in an apartment building close to her university, a complex home to many officers of the valley, which guaranteed her safety as she lived alone. She was described as a happy soul, generous with advice and always willing to stand by her friends. the traits everyone needs in a friend. She was considered the more responsible one among her friends, one of whom was Tony Bowman, who was in a fix and needed Mindy. On the night of September 13th, 2006, Tony was out with another friend named Danielle. And the problem was that her boyfriend didn't like her hanging out with other girlfriends. >> We ended up going out, had a couple drinks there, >> had some drinks. >> And as he started calling her, Tony came up with a cover story. I said, "Oh, I'm with we're with Mindy. We're just, you know, hanging out." >> Unlike her other girlfriends, Mindy was the safe and trustable friend. But Tony's boyfriend felt that something was up. So, he asked to speak to Mindy, who wasn't there. The two had no choice but to get Mindy from her apartment to keep their cover story intact. >> He said, "Danielle, we need to let's hustle up and get to Mindy's faster so we can drag her out so she can be in the background." So, she's your alibi. She was my ally. >> As they were going to her apartment, they tried to call her and get her ready, but she wasn't picking up. >> Hey, it's Nippy and I'm not here. >> Hey, baby. Um, >> when they reached her apartment at around 1:00 a.m., Danielle stayed in the car while Tony went to her apartment only to find that something sinister had happened. For some reason, I knocked and then I just grabbed the door handle and it just pushed open. I took about two, three steps in and that's when I I noticed something or something on the floor and then I looked down. I noticed it was Mindy and I saw her eyes and that's when I knew that something bad had happened. >> Tony rushed back out screaming for help as she had never witnessed or been in such a difficult position. She was able to catch the attention of one of the neighbors, Robert Lind. Can you uh could you come with me um and check on my friend? I took like two two three steps in maybe this enough that I could see all of her. I backpedalled as fast as I could, but I remember I backed pedled and hit the hallway wall. I think he checked for a pulse and he just said, you know, I'm sorry, friend. I'm sorry, but your friend is gone. And uh I just noticed that like I her throat had been tight and it was obvious. One important detail to note here is that Tony claims that it was quote unquote obvious that her throat was cut. Yet, Robert checked for a pulse and informed her that she was dead. Why did he check for a pulse when it was obvious her throat had been cut? After the 911 call, Sergeant Dave Swenson responded to the scene and recognized Mindy instantly, as Valley City was a small community and she was a very popular face. In fact, she was so popular that in 30 minutes, her apartment complex was surrounded by over 100 people, some of whom even recognized that it was Mindy's apartment where the trouble had happened. One of the neighbors, Chrissy Gibbs, was in the apartment complex and noticed the police lights outside her window. And when she saw that somebody had died, >> I went into sheer panic. My husband, he kind of just wrapped me up in his arms and we laid there. I didn't sleep awake. Upon entering the apartment, the sergeant was hit by the smell of pine soul, a clear sign the place was recently cleaned. The possibility of the crime scene being a burglary was immediately ruled out as everything appeared untouched, and her belongings were found scattered, as if she dropped them in a hurry. The autopsy concluded that Mindy was strangled with deep neck cuts causing death by asphixxiation. Defensive marks under her fingernails suggested that she fought back, pointing to the killer through DNA. Though an exact match wasn't found, an indirect one later broke the case wide open. The investigation focused on Mindy's inner circle, suspecting a personal motive, and among many connections, her exboyfriend Kyle Kousnia stood out. Their relationship spanning over two years ended in 2005 due to distance. And despite moving on, Kyle recalled in the interrogation Mindy's attempt to reconnect 7 months before her murder, a gesture he rebuffed, leading to regret. Kyle was cooperative and cleared via DNA, but he wasn't the last of Mindy's attempts to stay connected to her past. Rodney, Kyle's father, and another suspect, kept in frequent contact with Mindy. blurring boundaries to a concerning degree. According to friends and family, despite claiming a fatherly bond, Rodney's actions, particularly his unnerving voicemail following Mindy's death, cast a shadow over his intentions. >> Mindy, this is Rod. I know what happened to you. Your voice. >> His DNA was also collected and he was free to leave. The last two suspects under suspicion were the neighbor, Robert Lind, the guy who checked the throat cut person's pulse, and of course, the boyfriend, Jordan Ranom. Normally, the evidence should exonerate him, but out of all the suspects on the list, he was the one who made it to trial. And here's why. On paper, he was a picture perfect boyfriend, chauffeering Mindy to places, spending time with the family, very supporting, very loving. But it was later alleged that the couple's romance was cordial. It leads us to wonder whether an imbalance in the relationship can be a cause for murder or not. But either way, all the neighbors present in the apartment building underwent DNA sampling and so did the suspects. And here's what we found. Number one, the ex-boyfriend Kyle was at work at the time and his DNA didn't match the DNA under the fingernails. So, we can cross him off. Then number two, there's his father, Rodney, who was at a family dinner about 200 m away from the apartment complex. His DNA was also not a match, so he's off the list. Number three, Jordan was at the family farm working and his DNA was also not a match, so he's off the list. And then lastly, number four, the neighbor, Robert Lind, was at work during the time of the murder and showed up for the call to help at the last possible minute. His DNA didn't match the DNA on the fingernails either. So, he was crossed off the list. And with that, the investigation came to a complete halt. All the suspects had strong and verifiable alibis, and the DNA did not match any of them. However, it did match a cold case of 2004 in Fargo in which the victim was sexually assaulted. Being the only possible lead, the investigators contacted the victim to get as much information as possible. All the while knowing that the information would be very graphic. >> On my stomach, he was on top of me. He had his arm in my mouth so I couldn't scream. I just remember fighting him, struggling. He is twice my size. It's terrifying. I thought that was the end of it. She described her attacker as three things. African-Amean male, over 6 feet tall, and over 200 lb. So, there was a solid match using the victim's description and DNA from this case, and combined with the DNA sampling and testing in the entire apartment complex. Remember the neighbor, Chrissy Gibbs, the one who went into sheer panic and left for her parents house? It was her husband, Mo Maurice Gibbs. He ticked all the boxes from the victim's description and his DNA was a match. This man served as a correctional officer for Barnes County Jail and was a neighbor of the dearly departed. But with zero ties to the person, we're all wondering why he did what he did. Well, as we dive into his background, all the pieces of the puzzle will start to make sense. The investigators caught up to him and instead of scaring him into hiding, they told him to come down to the station to give some information. And just to make sure that the information he's providing doesn't have any loose ends, they'll do so with a polygraph. >> You know, as I said, what we have to do is start inveating. There's just so many people involved here. You know, names have come up and you being law enforcement and everything. We said, "Oh, we'll start with Mo." He'll he'll set the example for everybody. Do you have any problem with taking a polygraph or anything? >> No, I don't. Okay. Um, I appreciate that because it's going to help us a lot. >> Not a problem. >> Okay. Um, you know, one of the other things too that we ask before we start this, and I ask this to everybody, it's because you're law enforcement. >> Uh, you don't have any weapons on you or anything like that, do you? >> Sure. My phone, my key. >> Oh, okay. >> Nothing else on >> No. >> Okay, good enough. I appreciate you doing this. And like I said, uh, you know, other people are going to complain about us asking them to take it, but we can say, "Hey, we started with a law enforcement officer and he didn't have any problem doing it." Good. >> Good. Have you ever taken apolog? >> Never. >> Okay. Let me explain. Let me explain to you what's going to happen here. >> I mean, to, >> right? Right. And you understand uh the issue that we're dealing with. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. And what's your understanding of of the issue that we're dealing with? >> Was my understanding? >> Yeah. I mean, somebody was murdered. >> Yeah. Okay. And that person was uh you know, Mindy Morgan Stern, right? Okay. And did you have anything to do with that? >> No. >> Okay. You know, I I didn't think you probably would would, you know, being in law enforcement and all that kind of thing. Um, you know, from doing this these type of investigations for several years. I've been doing polygraphs for several years. Um, the person that would probably do something like this, uh, probably, you know, has hurt people in the past. I know you you've heard some, you've gotten insults in that, but you know, other than that, they probably have a a history of hurting people or forcing women to have sex with them or or uh, you know, hurting people they love or things like that. You're not any of those people, are you? No. Yeah. You know, I know you you know, you said you've had some problems in the past, but that was >> a long time ago. Uh, >> Gibbs nods in agreement because he knows exactly what the detective is referring to. Gibbs had served in the Navy from 1990 to 1999, during which he was accused of attempted murder. He served four years in a military prison in that case. But that's just a small stain on his polished profile in law enforcement because as the years went by, he made a big mess on his name. >> When did you first move into that apartment? Uh, I would say our six months lease just ended in October, >> the first October end. So, I would say I want to say April, but I'm not exactly sure. >> I believe it was April 1st we actually moved in. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Prior to that, where were you living at? >> We were living at When did you you know I know you said you were living in Fargo for a while. What do you remember about when you moved here to Valley City? It might have been February or February, I believe. >> February of this year of 05 05. >> Okay. And you were living in Fargo before that? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> You weren't married when you came here? >> No. >> Okay. Had you been Had you been married before you got married this time? >> I've been Yeah, I was married before, but not not like I was already divorced. I got divorced. >> Okay. And I didn't ask you earlier, but you had been married previous to this marriage here. >> Yes. >> Okay. And you got divorced when? >> In 97. >> Okay. Okay. So, you moved into that apartment building in April. Um, did your wife live with you right away at that point? >> Yes. >> Your current wife moved in with you right away. >> We were living together in the house before that. >> Okay. So, how long have you lived together then? >> Since I moved here in February. >> All right. Did you know your wife prior to moving here? Yeah, we were dating. I was living in Fargo. >> Okay. >> So, it was, you know, we were trying to make it things work and like, you know, why don't you just move up here and go to school here? >> So, that's what made me move up here. >> All right. >> As you can tell, he's not just being interrogated for one case, but two. Here, he's confirmed his presence in Fargo, matching the timeline with the 2005 case. And soon enough, they'll talk about his move here and how he got close to Mindy. Uh, now you moved into the apartment over there. Did you uh did you know who Mindy was? >> Yes, I knew her. She worked with my wife's sister. >> Okay. Your wife's sister is but she's in Kent right now. She goes to school in Kent. Okay. So you you met uh Mindy through >> Yes. Okay. >> So you knew did you know Mindy well enough where you were on a first name basis. You talked to each other all the time. >> Well, no. We didn't talk to each other all the time. It was in passing like we would see each other passing be like, "Hey, you know, how you doing?" >> But it was no long conversations. Oh, okay. Like that. >> Okay. Uh, but you know, she did she know your name? >> Yeah, I would believe so. >> Okay. >> Cuz she knows my wife. >> Okay. >> So, you know, they know the whole family. >> Did uh you guys get to visit get together and visit at all? >> Like just to go out and hang out? >> Well, you know, even in the apartment building. >> No, we never hung out. I mean, I was up I went to her place one time and that was probably either a week and a half or two weeks ago. And that was just because she was coming home and she was holding her pants, holding a laundry basket and a book bag. I help you know me and Tom me were leaving so I helped her out to her apartment >> and that was it. >> But other than that >> So that's the only time you've ever been up in her apartment was about a week and a half. >> Yes. >> No, we never hung out. I mean, I was up I went to her place one time and that was probably either a week and a half or two weeks ago and that was just because she was coming home and she was holding her pants, holding a laundry basket and a book bag and I helped you know me and me and were leaving so I helped her out to her apartment >> and that was it. >> But other than that, >> so that's the only time you've ever been up in her apartment was about a week and a half. >> Yes. >> He just described the crime scene perfectly, naming two important elements. the laundry bag, which was untouched, and the book bag. Perhaps this was his way of getting access to her apartment. But why? That is still yet to be decided. >> What u you know, and I know you've given a couple statements as far as what you recall happening on that day where you were at. Can you just run through that again? Well, and this I've been talking with my wife because we got our I might have my days mixed up on which but I know we now that me and her talked about it. I left the apartment at 11:30 with her cuz she has to be at work at 12 12:30 that day >> and we went to lunch. So then I dropped her off at work at around 12:30 12:35 and I came back to the apartment and I got to the apartment between 12:45 and 1:00. Where'd you guys go to lunch at? >> I I'm gonna guess and say, but it's, you know, we do so many things. It's just hard to remember. >> Well, yeah, that's that's a week down the road here. And I know it's I have a lot of problems remembering what I did this morning. >> Yeah. >> So, but I'm going, if I had to pick, I would say I'm not 100% sure if that's where we went, but we go somewhere almost every day. >> Uhhuh. So, >> but I remember, you know, dropping her off and then coming back. >> Okay. You dropped her off at work? >> Yes, at work. >> And of course, I >> And then you went back to the apartment building. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, what time did you get do you think you got back to the apartment building? I said between 12:45 and 1:00. Were you after you dropped your wife off, were you alone? >> I was with you. >> Yes. >> He admits to being in her apartment just once, but with the description he's given. We have a feeling it was that one time in which he did the deed. Now that the detective has laid the groundwork enough, he confronts him with the biggest piece of the puzzle. How would you feel if I told you that your DNA matches DNA that we found on Mindy's body? >> I'd be like, that wasn't true. So, I know I wasn't there. So, >> okay. M uh DNA is pretty specific. >> Mhm. Um, you know, down to millions of people. >> Yeah, I understand that. And somewhere along the line, uh, Mindy scratched a person that attacked her. Do you have any fresh scratches on you or anything >> from Wednesday? No, from after Wednesday. Yeah. >> Like where where do you have scratches >> on my arm and right here? This happened Thursday. This happened Friday. >> My wife can verify it cuz >> she >> What about any other scratches that you have on you anywhere? Nothing on your head or >> I see you. I mean, >> yeah. Like on your neck or your face or anything like that? >> Nothing. >> Well, you know, I'm serious about this now. >> And I we're we're in a bind here. Um, your DNA is matching what we found on her under her fingernails. >> I don't know how my fingernail my DNA was under under her fingernails. >> Okay. You didn't have any contact with her that day at all? >> No. Not for 10 days. You said >> at least 10 days. When I helped her upstairs. >> Yeah. Okay. Your DNA is under her fingernails. >> You knew you reacted to the belt along upon her neck. >> You haven't been completely honest with me. >> You haven't been completely honest with me about your background because I probably know some things about you that you haven't told other people. Um, you've been through this before, Mom. Not exactly like this, but >> um, you've been you worked with the system enough where, you know, the only thing that's really going to help you out here is to cut your losses. >> Well, I had nothing to do with her death. >> I know that. >> Nothing at all. >> Nothing. Okay. My background. Okay. Yeah, I can. >> You did you didn't tell me the truth on all that >> as far as my military past? No, I didn't. >> Okay. >> But I mean, and as you said, I didn't tell nobody that. Nobody really knows that. >> But as my military passed, that's Yeah, I can I'll admit to that. But >> Okay. >> I had nothing to do with her death. No. >> Were you there when she was killed? >> No, I was not. >> No. the DNA, you know, the polygraph here. I I can maybe argue with you. A lot of people don't don't agree with or believe in polygraph. Now, the chief here doesn't believe in polygraph. And sometimes the >> first time I ever took I had no clue. >> Yeah. And uh there are times I wonder about the results too, but when we get DNA backbone and it says this is the person that it matches this person out of so many million, we can't argue with that mole. Plus, I'm going to let you in on something else here. >> The DNA that they match that they brought up, it also matches uh the DNA that was found on a girl that was assaulted two years ago in Fargo. >> Okay. >> Two years ago in Fargo. >> Yep. In 2004 during the time period you were in Fargo. Well, what I know I didn't do anything. >> No, everybody says you're a good guy. You know, the people that work work with you, everybody around here loves you. >> Um, sometimes we just do stupid things, you know, whether we're drinking or doing or whatever or we get caught up in something that we don't intend to do. And um, you had some problems in the past. I understand that. But you've also not been in trouble for a while. >> Yeah, you're right. You just got a new wife. Uh she's pregnant. Uh people make mistakes. M >> I didn't make this mistake. So >> Mo, I I know you can sit you're going to sit there and tell me that, but as I said, the polygraph, I can I can dismiss that. The DNA, I can't. Um I have to find How did you tell me then? How did scrapings or your skin get under her fingernails? How could that have happened? >> You tell me. I I know nothing about DNA. I know I wasn't >> The only The only way it could have gotten there, Mole, was through contact. And I you know what I was getting with about Mindy? You know, I know she's, you know, we found out that she's probably gone out with quite a few guys, and I don't think anybody would blame you if if you had tried taking her out or anything or or were having some type of relationship with her. It didn't happen. I never tried to take her out. Never. >> Were you up in her apartment at all other than the one time the 10 days ago? >> No, >> I wasn't. >> So, there isn't going to be You know what trace evidence is? Trace evidence is little pieces of hair, uh, little pieces of partic clothing particles, anything things like that that end up on a body. They transfer from one person to the other. >> Yeah. And are we going to find any of trace evidence, trace particles from you on on her body? You know, we already got DNA. >> You shouldn't. No. >> Um, >> well, my clothes are probably still sitting in the dirty clothes hamper. >> Where were they being? >> That's right. >> Parents house. We just moved them from the apartment to the thing in the hamper. >> Okay. What were you wearing that day? >> Um, blue shorts and a white tank top. So, Well, um, and I'm only doing this because you're a fellow law enforcement person, >> but you need to cut your losses here. You knew >> there is no losses to cut. >> Yes, there are. I'm not Mo. I'm not lying to you here. You were in trouble here. >> Okay. Well, what's our next step? I mean, cuz you can talk to me till you turn blue in the face. I know I didn't do nothing. I can talk to you till I turn blue in the face. You're going to go off what you got to do and I'm going to do what I got to do. >> Okay. >> So, I know I didn't do nothing. So, now what do we do? >> Well, I think there's going to be somebody else that's going to want to talk to you. >> And that's fine. >> And >> so, do I need to tell pick up the kid, the truck? >> Yeah, we'll take care of that in a little bit. what what we're going to do here uh what I'm trying to do is give you a break and you know right now or or try and convince you that you need to do whatever you can to help yourself but uh you've been through the system enough you know how judges are uh if somebody comes in and says yeah I screwed up they take that into account if somebody sits there and says I didn't have anything to do with it when there's overwhelming evidence against them the judge does not take kindly to that uh you're going to have to decide which is best for you. >> You understand what I'm saying? >> Yep. >> So, and again, that's as a somebody that's in law enforcement. Um I can't make you Help yourself. I understand that. You know, I guess what you're going to have to think about is what you're going to be leaving here. You got a wife and a kid on the way. Yeah, they're going to go through a certain amount of embarrassment, too. And I think you know that You want to talk to me about it at all? >> There's nothing to talk about. >> Okay. All right. Okay. If you change your mind, I'd be willing to talk to you. Yeah. >> All right. >> So, can I call her or >> Uh, yeah. Well, we'll get you a phone call here. Anytime. Cat's out of the bag and he's straight up denying any involvement. During all this, his leg moves a lot, a clear indication of nervousness. But from the bottom up, he seems calm and composed, like a well-versed liar. The detective wouldn't have been grilling him this strongly if they hadn't checked the DNA twice. There was irrefutable evidence putting him on the scene, and he could have made any excuse about his DNA under her fingernails, but instead, his silence on the matter spoke volumes. Now, another detective from the Fargo Police Department comes in to interrogate him because their sexual assault case just got busted wide open with the new found DNA from Gibbs. >> This is Detective Leoo from the Fargo Police Department. He indicates he doesn't have anything to do with with this or doesn't want to talk to us. I don't know if you want to talk to him about >> Sure. >> your issue. >> Yeah. Mo >> detective police department. >> Um I'm here to talk to you about um when these guys took your your DNA sample. >> Mhm. >> Um I was working and it was put in the national database. It's called KOS. I suppose you're aware of that. What happened there was we got a hit on your DNA, the mass of DNA in an assault that happened in Fargo, North Dakota in 2004. >> Okay. And we got you placed in this building at that time. What I I need to talk to you about because with my situation, I don't know all the situation that's going on here, but with Fargo, >> I mean, there's no question that you were responsible for what she alleges is an assault. >> Mhm. Now, this happened at number 11 12th Street North in Fargo. >> Okay. I know your mom lives in Fargo. >> My mom lives in Fargo. >> Okay. Did you um did you you lived there for a while in Fargo? >> In 2004. I had just got there. So, >> I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. >> Okay. Uh it was in June of 2004. I know it's a long time. It's hard to remember, but anyway, the DNA matches um with the DNA that these guys took from you and it's a national database and then it kicks it out to me. My situation is there's no question that you were involved in this, but I want to know because there's two sides to every story about what happened here. This was a probably you're familiar with Morhead. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And um what I believe happened is that you met her there and you took her to this and had course with her. Now my question is to you because the way I work is exactly there's two sides of every story. Was this a consensual act and she was um like 21 years old had short brown hair? >> Okay. I mean I I want to say okay you know yeah but I don't remember you know I don't want to say yeah that's something >> that >> did you have friends that lived it it's it's downtown building and there's actually three buildings but it's one apartment complex when you walk in there's a big common area I think they got a pool outside and then there's like an area B building a C building and an A building okay and it's hometown Fargo. >> Okay. I'll agree with you, I guess, cuz I don't I really don't remember. >> When you were in Fargo, did you ever have sex with somebody >> in Fargo? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Do you remember when this wasn't a girlfriend? This was just um >> I mean, it might have happened a couple times that I picked somebody up and >> Okay. So, um, do I know it's hard to remember, but she was there? She left with you. >> I mean, it I was They probably all know me there. I was a regular. I mean, yeah, I left with >> Okay. >> several different people there. >> Okay. Her name was >> If I don't remember the incident, I sure ain't going to remember her name. >> Okay. But it is possible. Well, it is. >> Yeah. I mean, it could be possible. >> It did happen because you can't get away with the DNA. I mean, that's >> I mean, it's possible that Yeah. Okay. I left with I can name a couple that I've left with. >> Okay. >> You know, I mean, >> yeah. I mean, you know. >> Okay. >> It It wasn't a uncommon thing for me to leave with somebody like this. >> And where would you go? >> Did you bring them to your mom's? >> Oh, never. I've never went to my mom, but I mean, I might have went to her place, my place, or >> this was not her place. So, I just want to take her to a friend's house. >> I mean, it could be a friend's house. It could have been a party up there. >> Do you know? >> Yeah. >> No. >> Last name ring a bell at all? >> Can you go get my list? That might memory a little bit. It's It's >> right now. He has indirectly admitted to having sex with the victim. But the way she described the incident, there's no way it was consensual. It wasn't even at his place or her mother's place. It was at some unknown place where he lured her, which exposes his intentions even more. >> Let me try to explain the room. She said that the room is just a mattress on the floor with no sheets on it, just a mattress cover. I I haven't been to know just a mattress cover. Any place I've been there was always a bed and >> Okay. >> Did you ever have anybody's a friend's house like, "Hey, anytime you want to crash here, Mo, you can crash here. Here's my keys if you want." >> Well, no, it wasn't that I had a key. I mean, they might have been home, you know. >> And like I said, if it was after if I went anywhere, it was because somebody was having a party, you know. Hey, come over here. >> I'm sorry about that. Okay. And you think you've left a couple times with girls and have >> quite a few times. Okay. I mean, >> but I know I've never assaulted anybody. >> So, you're saying that this is very possible, but if it was >> Yeah, it's possible. I mean, and I can't deny that because, you know, you know, that's how I was back then. >> It is very possible, but it was was not an assault, >> right? >> I know that cuz I don't I don't need to assault anybody. >> Okay. So, it would be very possible that we had your DNA from somebody who had with you in Fargo. >> Yeah, it is possible. Okay. >> He's only digging his grave deeper by saying these things. And while he claims that this was quote unquote how I was back then, further investigations revealed that this old habit didn't die. By the time these accusations came up, Gibbs was separated from his partner, Chrissy, and was already engaged to his new girlfriend, Amy Olsen. and he's had a series of ex-girlfriends who testified later that their cause of breaking up with him was his infidelity. Tying all this together, we might be looking at a reason to kill. But before this polygraph test comes to an end, the detective tries to take one more jab at him just to get him to confess. >> What are we going to do more? >> Well, I ask him, you know, what's the next step? You know, I don't know. You know, you can portray me as this. >> You know what? I'm not doing well. I'm not I'm not saying you personally. I'm just generalizing. You know, >> they I'll just say they >> they're going to say >> they're going to say I'm whatever. I mean, I know >> they're going to say you're vicious, that you're a cold-hearted basket killer >> who just woke up one morning and said, "I'm going to do this." Right? >> That's what they're going to say. I'll How can we explain? >> How can you explain? I'm not >> You can't explain. You're not Well, I I'm sorry. >> Am I Am I a vicious person at work? >> No. >> Am I a business person at home? >> Am I a vicious person in a community? >> That's what they're going to say. Yes, you are. >> Well, I I I'll just say bring two people to say I'm vicious. >> And you know what they'd say? I wish we could bring Mindy Morgan Stern right here to to do to to say >> she says I'm a vicious person then. And if she says I'm not a vicious person, but >> I don't want to get into the did you do it or not because I saw enough today to say oh Jesus. >> Okay. Well, that's your opinion to me. >> It's more than opinion. It's science. >> Okay. Then then we got to go to the next level like I told him. >> Yeah. >> You can talk to your blue in the face. I can pop something blue in the face. It's not going to make a difference. >> I know. >> It's No way. There's no way. I don't know what to do. I don't know the next step. So, >> well, this is going to get blown way out of proportion. >> It is. It already is. For me to be sitting right here, it already that part. I I wish I could say I believe you didn't do it, but I know based on today's what I've seen today. >> Okay. Well, That's your opinion. >> Mo, it's not my opinion. I wish it were my opinion, but it's not. >> It's not. >> Well, I mean, we got to do what we got to do then. I mean, >> how do you think it could have got there? >> I have no clue. >> No, I don't know. We got We got to come up with something or they're going to they're going to they're going to rake you over to Kohl's. Well, I mean, >> well, what did you guys Let's just Let's just take a step back for a moment, okay? Let's just kind of walk through the room. >> Did Did something happen between you and two? >> No. Never. >> Never. >> Nope. >> Mo, I think you got to You know what's not good. They're They come in here and they they pulled us. Um, Mr. Big, get out of our way. We're going to take over. Well, I mean, and they're going to do what they want to do. >> And I got to tell you, they did a good job. >> All right. So, what do you think we can do? >> I don't know. >> And with that, Mo Gibbs officially sealed his doom. He was arrested and charged with first-degree murder. And while he was awaiting trial, he got a handwritten letter from Mindy's mom, Ununice. She offered him a chance to gain some closure by telling the truth about what happened. >> Mr. Gibbs, I forgive you publicly here. And I also want you to know that I won't forget what you did to Mindy. In June of 2007, a year after the murder, Mo Gibbs was sentenced to 15 years in prison for the assault case in Fargo and was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Mindy Morgan Stern. And that's how justice was served to the family whose brave daughter's name will live forever in North Dakota's history. And if you ever find yourself in Valley City, be sure to visit the heart-shaped Mindy's Garden dedicated to the duly departed Mindy Morgan Stern. Now, if you think this case was horrific, you need to check out my video about the detective who turned out to be the killer.