Hi. How's it going? >> Hi. >> No? >> Um >> Hello. >> Oh, look at that. Fair enough. So, no ID. >> Okay. >> Neither I Neither I from the car. She has She has something ON HER PHONE, BUT IT'S not a >> Yeah, I'm going to say. >> It's fine. That's okay. So, the total you have >> Uh you know what I mean when I say total? >> I got two receipts. 148 something combined. Um the stuff on the left, she said this is her sister. Don't know. There's no ID and she doesn't want to talk. And then this one here, she gave me the false information first, her name was Six, told me the truth, her name is Madison. >> Okay. >> And that stuff she concealed. So, all together, they concealed around the baby in the stroller. I pushed it out the GM door. >> Nice. How old are you? 14? Got you. You ever been to jail before? Okay, you might be going today. Who do you know that can pick up your child? Start making some calls. >> May 29th, 2024. A Walmart in South Jersey. Two women push a stroller with a 6-month-old infant past the registers and into a police detention that ends in handcuffs. >> All right. You both have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do can be used against you in court. You have the right to consult with and have a president attorney before, during, and after questioning. If you decide to speak with me about THE INCIDENT, YOU CAN STOP AT ANY TIME. DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS? OKAY. SO, what what stuff did you conceal? >> Um that's this one. >> NO, MA'AM. >> PAYLESS. Um the All of it came out of my purse. NOT ALL OF IT. >> ALL RIGHT, SO THIS STUFF HERE? WHAT STUFF? ALL RIGHT, BUT Y'ALL WORKED TOGETHER TO HIDE ABOUT $150 of this stuff. How about I got you. I need a chair OR SOMETHING. WE'RE GOING TO BE HERE FOR A LITTLE BIT. WHAT'S WHAT'S WALMART'S POLICY ON JUVENILES? YOU WON'T? ALL RIGHT, YOU WANT TO PROSECUTE ON THE YOU WANT TO PROSECUTE ON THE adult theft? Okay. Ma'am, what's your last name? SPELL OUT YOUR FULL NAME. R O W? YOU EVER BEEN TO JAIL BEFORE? What's your first name? Maxine? M A X Just Just hang tight for a couple minutes, okay? Okay. But right now we're in a in a criminal investigation, so you're just going to HAVE TO WAIT. WHAT'S YOUR MIDDLE NAME? WHAT'S YOUR MIDDLE NAME? ELIZABETH? YOU GOT A driver's license? What's your date of birth? I'm sorry? >> Just don't get this >> I don't KNOW. I I I I HAVE TO BE WITH YOU ALL SO, I'm here for an hour or ONE OF US SO, MA'AM, IF YOU WANT TO SCORE HER CELL THE BATHROOM AND WHATEVER. SO, NO, YOU CAN'T LEAVE THIS AREA. YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL SOMEBODY ELSE FOR THE CHILD. PUT YOUR HANDS IN FRONT OF YOU. UNBELIEVABLE. Let's go. Bad move today. Bad, bad moves. Where's your car at? >> I I parked it over here. >> I would get to find it now. Let's go. >> But Noah doesn't want to be >> What's the other girl's relation to you? >> She's my neighbor. >> Your neighbor? >> It's a um >> Ma'am, I'm not looking for your car for you. >> It's her car. Okay, so we went in that way. I would say it's a >> Someone going to pick up your car? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Cuz you're just watching the top of the bag or you want to grab it? >> I'll grab it. This one right here? >> Yeah, that's where I got my tampons, yeah. >> Okay, where are those at? >> They're back there. >> Mhm. I'll come up. >> I'll put those in there. >> Well, you Yeah, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO. THAT'S YOUR BABY, RIGHT? >> YEAH. >> YOU CAN JUST WALK IN FRONT OF ME, PLEASE. >> SO, this is coming with >> No, misdemeanor. >> So, none of that will be changed? >> Yeah. I'm going to have the uh loss prevention girl go with you, okay? >> Okay. >> And would you escort her to the bathroom and me to kind of so she can change the child do what she needs to do. >> 148 >> 148 what? Do you have your ID, ma'am? Ma'am. Is this your daughter? >> YES, UNFORTUNATELY. SO WHO'S IDEA WAS IT? WELL, THAT'S DREADFUL, BUT YOU'VE GOT A CHILD OF 6 MONTHS OLD >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. The aggravating factor in this scenario is you have two juveniles that you're responsible for here. >> I have said you have nothing to do with her. How many times have I said stay away? And what was she stealing? >> And and this No, that's And this business of oh, they shouldn't be arresting me or whatever, you committed a crime, so we make an arrest based on our judgment of the facts and circumstances, not whether or not we're making we're making an ideal of this or that. >> Is this what you're saying? >> Yes. >> Why? She was stealing toiletries. You don't need stuff, Madison. You've asked for enough money to buy stuff. You don't need to steal. The shirt, no. What if we don't have the bond money? She gets she gets to >> She just stays until her trial. >> Okay. What do you want to do? I don't know, man. You got to let me know what you want to do. I did. You got to let me know what you want to do. Then I get Madison. But you know that car's gone now. Can I get in that bag? So Dad's coming for her? Thank you. >> So the juvenile Walmart elected not to prosecute, so she's getting off scot-free. She's still being listed as part of the report. Um They should they probably should stay away from each other. All right. Take care. I appreciate it. You too, man. Yeah, yeah. >> Sir? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Have a question. >> Yeah. >> So if I don't get bailed out tomorrow, you know, how long would I be in there? >> It could be a couple months, it could be a couple years. I mean, it just depends. It's not going to be a couple years, though. I'm just saying it would be until your trial. Um but you can bail out at any time as long as you have a bond, you can bail out. >> how much the bond would be? >> It's probably going to be 5,000, I think. 5 to 10,000. Yeah. The petty theft is not going to be a lot. The You know, the fact that you were uh responsible for two juveniles at this time, that's what's going to you know, be the the higher amount. But I can't see it being more being more than 10. >> This is yours. I wasn't able to attach a photo of the evidence, so if you want to take a picture Could you not put me in handcuffs? I promise I won't do anything. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> It's just that they're really uncomfortable. >> Well, listen, ma'am. Getting arrested is uncomfortable. >> I know. I know. >> All right. And you seem to be You seem to be listening to me. You seem to have this attitude of like, "Oh, well, I did wrong, but, you know, everything will bend and flex for me." And that's not how it goes. You're in the custody of the state now, of the county. The bond is probably going to be about 10,000, I'm thinking. I don't know I don't set the bond. The judge sets the bond. >> Okay. >> The bond is probably going to be about 10,000. When you go to a bail bondsman, they usually charge you 10%. So, the bail bondsman pays the 10,000, and you pay him a 10 10% down payment to hold you accountable to. All right. So, it's probably going to be a thousand dollars to get her out tomorrow. I don't know exactly what it's going to be. They may have a sheet at the jail that says, "Hey, first offense for petty theft and contributing to delinquency of a minor, there's a bond of whatever." And she might be able to bond out tonight. It's possible. I don't think so, though. >> Okay. >> All right. But, um >> how how do we know who's going to be a bondsman or >> You just You can just look it up. >> You have to You have to find one. >> Yeah, you just just Google it. Bondsman. There's plenty around. >> Okay. >> Lake City here, you know. Yeah. >> You could do one from Lake City for >> I think so. Yeah. But there's there's one in my book, too. All right. Um you can take that with you and use it in the car, but we're going to have to throw it away when we get to the jail. I apologize for what's happened. Everyb- Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody gets in trouble at some point in their life, you know what I mean? But this business is but with the juveniles being present is unacceptable. All right. All right, let's go. I'll get with you later. Yep. I want to talk to the public defender. Yep. You got your phone with you? What's that with you? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's fine. All right, we're going to go this way to my car, okay? >> Can I get my some of my clothes out of my car real quick? >> You need to what? >> I want some of my clothes out of the car. >> What do you need your clothes for? >> You said I don't need anything. They will not let you take anything in. >> Okay. >> You're going to jail. You're not You're not going on to a holiday. Yeah. You're going to be in a jail cell, not not in a hotel room. All right, let's go to the white car over there. Thank you, ma'am. I'm not trying to be harsh, but it is what it is. Got to learn someday. Let's go. All right, a few more Yeah, no problem. Um Yeah, I I thought these were closer, but they're not, so here is fine. You can hold your stuff, yeah, whichever. All right, do you have anything on you that's illegal, needles, drugs, marijuana, anything like that? Okay. All right, when we get there >> my tampons in there. >> Okay. When we get there, they're going to have you relinquish all that kind of stuff. Um the nose ring will probably have to come out. >> take that out. It's really tight. It hurts. >> Yeah, but but they they may make you take it out. I don't know. But I'm just giving you fair warning. The bracelets, the rings, all that's going to have to come off. But don't worry about it here, okay? >> Okay. >> All right, thank you. All right, let's go. You all right? You can take your Yeah, and your rings as well. All right, I got to toss this, okay? >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Can you step to the side just a little bit so I can close this up? Thank you. I'm good, yeah. Yeah. Well, she She didn't have it with her. She didn't have it with her. I got it on my >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Did you have my ID? >> You never have it had it. again. >> It was in in car. I forgot my ID. >> Okay, it's it's no big deal. >> Okay, it's fine. >> I I don't know what I'll spell for you in a second. >> Yeah, if you don't have any, please come up. RLB >> Sir, this is a >> Before the officer arrived, loss prevention had already stopped them. New Jersey statute 2C 20-11 subsection E gives a merchant's agent authority to detain someone for a reasonable time when there is probable cause of shoplifting. That detention was lawful. Civil detention ends the moment police take over. Once the officer assumed control, the legal basis shifted from merchant's privilege to criminal seizure and every Fourth Amendment protection attached from that point forward. The probable cause foundation was solid. Receipts totaling $248.70, recovered merchandise concealed in the stroller, and loss prevention available to testify under the totality of the circumstances standard in Illinois versus Gates, that clears the threshold without question. Miranda came at 1 minute 40 seconds into the footage. The problem is what happened before that. The adult subject had already told the officer she gave a false name and that merchandise was hidden in the stroller in custody before any warning was given. Custody is the threshold question for Miranda. The Supreme Court held in Berkemer versus McCarty that non-custodial questioning does not require a warning. The test is objective. Would a reasonable person feel free to leave? With police present and both subjects seated and held, the answer is no. Those pre-warning statements are suppressible. After Miranda, the adult waved, yes, okay, verbally without hesitation. Valid waiver. What she said after that is usable. What she said before is not. That line is where the prosecution's case either holds or starts to crack. The charge that drives this case is contributing to the delinquency of a minor under New Jersey statute 2C 24-9, fourth-degree crime. The elements, one adult, one juvenile under 18, conduct that tends to cause that juvenile to commit a delinquent act. All three are met here. The shoplifting charge sits underneath it merchandise between $75 and $200 under section 2C, 20-11, subsection B, paragraph two, disorderly persons offense, up to six months county jail, tried in municipal court, not superior court. Fourth degree is a different world. State prison exposure up to 18 months, $10,000 fine, a permanent state criminal record, not a municipal one affecting professional licensing, employment, and for non-citizens, deportation. The contributing charge is not a tack-on. It is the main event. Using an infant as cover is organized retail theft. New Jersey statute 2C, 5-2 conspiracy attaches when two or more persons agree to commit a crime and take a substantial step toward it. The officer did not pursue it. The facts would support the charge. Premeditation matters at sentencing. Under New Jersey statute 2C, 44-1, subsection A, the circumstances of the offense are an aggravating factor. A coordinated scheme using an infant as cover is not an impulsive grab. A judge treats it differently and is entitled to. Walmart declined to prosecute the juvenile. That is the merchant's prerogative, but under New Jersey statute 2A, 4A-71, the county prosecutor's juvenile unit has independent authority to file regardless of what the store decided. The incident report exists. "Sko tangent free today" is not a permanent guarantee. The 14-year-old also made statements in police presence without a parent or attorney. The Supreme Court held in In re Gault that juveniles retain Fifth Amendment rights. The officer treated her as a witness, not a suspect. If the juvenile unit revisits this, those statements become a problem. Realistic outcome for a first-time fourth-degree offender in New Jersey. Conditional discharge under 2C 36A-1 or a plea to a lower disorderly persons offense. No state prison but probation, restitution, and a record that follows. The shoplifting charge folds into the resolution. The officer earns an A- minus. Miranda delivered correctly. The infant's welfare addressed in the first 90 seconds. Bond and booking explained without condescension. One issue. Pre-warning statements taken while custody had likely already attached a suppression problem at trial. The physical evidence holds regardless. The adult subject earns a C- minus. She did not resist and cooperated after Miranda will mitigating factors. But she brought a teenager and an infant into a theft scheme, gave a false name, then asked to simply pay for the merchandise. The contributing charge follows from those choices. Three lessons. First, a merchant's privileged detention is legally authorized. Walking away from it can add obstruction to the charge sheet. The time to contest the stop is in court, not on the retail floor, and not in the moment. Second, giving a false name to a law enforcement officer is a fourth degree crime in New Jersey under statute 2C 29-3B, the same tier as contributing to the delinquency of a minor. The officer did not add that charge. That was discretion, not oversight. Third, involving a minor creates two separate consequences. A felony tier charge for the adult and a permanent incident report for the juvenile the prosecutor can act on independently. Neither disappears when the merchant declines. The only real protection was not involving the minor at all. Let us know if there is an interaction or legal topic that you would like us to discuss in the comments below. Thank you for watching and don't forget to check out our channel for even more police interaction and courtroom content.