that saw both of you throwing punches at each other so I should have hit him with what you're saying I don't know god if you didn't hit somebody I don't want you to say you hit someone but also if you did hit someone how can I get how can I get charged for something I didn't do OK from the independent witness who is not associated with anybody it kind of sounds like you guys were just fighting each other so can't be doing that in public I forgot about him when he got out of his car he immediately kicked my mirror off immediately he kicked it off you wanna come look at it yeah oh he did this yeah it's so he hopped out of his car and did that OK hi guys okay he's talking to me in the face okay I want you to talk to these officers here okay them yes hey just so you know we're recording what's going on this guy started chasing after me after his friends were trying to get traction on their tires and he pulled out of after me from the turn lane so I slowed down he rear ended me and this ensued okay so for right now do you have any weapons on you no okay what happened with the collision he hit me he rear ended me that's all that happened okay so where were you at where were you driving I was right I was like right after where he hit me OK so you were right after stop for traffic he pulled out of the turn lane stop chasing after me stop yelling at me I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the collision stop you're yelling at me too I'm yelling at you cause you were yelling at me calm your *ss down and explain to me what happened with the collision he was in the turn lane and he was revving his motor really loud I told him that he was g*y and then he pulled out after me like he's gonna fight me okay so were you in the fight I I was trying not to hit him I was trying not to hit him he was behind me so he saw everything he was going I wanna say 20 25 I was doing like 15 I saw a rich slid into him but I was already in the lane completely and then he gets out gets in my face I try not to hit him right and he hits me it took everything not to hit him back okay real quick where were you at I was at the light waiting to go straight and he was in the turn lane and then he pulled behind me after I made fun of him so you're at the light ready to go straight yeah and he rear ended you at the light he followed me out of the turn lane and rear ended me like right like right where your car is parked right where the cruisers are parked back there so you said he was in the turn lane though and then he pulled behind me to chase me okay so he was in the turn lane yeah that was before he rear ended you or after yeah before he rear ended me OK he pulled out of the turn lane to chase after me so why did you call him g*y cause he was swerving behind me with his car trying to warm up his tires acting like I'm going too slow and I'm already going faster than the speed limit okay so then you were stopped for traffic or did you brake check him I didn't brake check him you stopped for traffic and he rear ended me I stopped for traffic that's all it was but he hit me he hit me good and I I tried not to hit him because it was an accident blah blah blah his fault accident and I really tried not to hit him he was getting my face I walked away and then he socked me in the jaw because he came back over after I was you know just called the cops on he doesn't want to be civil because we could have just exchanged information blah blah blah but he slammed on the brakes so we could do the insurance shit then I'm because technically if you rear end somebody it's your fault automatically and I must say break check that's from what I know okay so start from the top for me so you were heading north so I was in the turn lane and I got in and so after that like yeah that's illegal what turn lane like yeah which car is this the ridgeline right here the Honda okay so after you got rear ended you pulled over yeah after I yelled it says has some choice words for the guy for sure okay and I was still packed and I got through the intersection and I was in the lane so at that point are you headed north or south I was OK and at that point I was already in the lane and he's been f*cking me off all the time I've been keeping the distance but he slammed so hard and it's a little car and it's manual I slammed on the brakes and it was still it was it just slipped but I was already in the lane this lane I was completely in it I was doing like maybe I wanna say 15 cause my car is not messed up at all really uh doing a 15 and he completely just locked it like he slid a little too he completely locked his brakes I ruined it and then he got in my face and he was like literally touching my like call me I was trying not to hit him I was trying to get him away from me I didn't push him didn't touch him because I was I if I hit him I'm not gonna stop until you guys get here I'm gonna be honest because that was it was b*llshit so he socks me in the jaw uh he saw it and the other people that left saw it they took a video when he started yelling at me in the beginning with so then what happened you pulled over I pulled over and then we just started the screaming match and he was in my face inside the car outside outside the car okay alright were you alone in your truck or did you have someone with I'm alone yeah did he have anyone with him no he just has his friends following him in a convoy okay where his friends at that's one of his buddies right there okay so what happened with the yelling and the punching um he was just threatening me and he chested up to me and I like pushed him back and threw a punch sorry say that again he was he was up against my chest and I like got back from him and then I like he was still talking and I like threw a punch at him and I was already in the lane when like I wasn't turning into the lane I was already in the lane when he slammed on his face so you get back over the lane he slams on his brakes and you rear end him yes completely locked and then what happens and then he got on my face belly to belly right there he stopped the car right there and got out I wanna say he was a little in front of this truck so then you stop here he gets out of his car about do you get out of your car I got out of my car because I hit him and the car died and I had the clutch in so I was like oh I just it just completely destroyed the front end so I thought I did I got out and he stopped in the middle of the road and got out immediately he wanted it to happen that was his goal his main priority was to make me hit him okay so you were a witness yeah so you don't know don't know either of these people what did you see so I was driving behind that guy in the Mini Cooper and he was going very fast it looks like he was tailgating him and he was like driving on the road okay um and that was happening up until this light right here where that guy turned to go left and then all of a sudden I start going and then he cuts off in front of me to start chasing him from the turn lane okay and that's when I saw this guy slam on his brakes and then I heard the impact and then I got out and then he got in my face and then he I asked him to call the cops and then we pull over and I was like oh I thought I he looks like he's gonna run cause he sped up really quick just pull over here and then he got out blah blah blah something something uh uh I'm running fast and then he punched me in the face and then he kept trying to like get tough with me and blah blah blah he's saying I can't fight him blah blah blah he like he wants me to fight him he wants me to and I'm trying not to hurt him like I'm trying not to hit him like I literally took everything I had not to just clock him and end it all and he just kept and then you guys show up and he's kind of just stops so when you guys got out of your car here was he saying anything to you no he was calling me names immediately and he was right when he stepped out of the car he was calling me off all the way down this road okay so where did he start flipping you off at but um he said he brake checked them and then he got out of his car and told me can you call the cops he just brake checked me and he hit me yeah um I also saw that this guy got out of his car first and like started screaming at him and went after his mirror and pulled on it oh okay which mirror was it this mirror here it's all messed up okay not your mirror his mirror yeah his mirror on driver side passenger side driver side okay okay alright you're good to go man I appreciate it um so sorry just to verify so they were they got out of the car what did you see with the fight um I was sitting right here I was parked uh on the phone with the dispatch police and they start getting up in each other's faces okay um and then that guy over there in the truck threw the punch first and then this guy sort of like try to push him away to defend himself and then they start throwing punches so did it look like they were just fighting each other or like one person more aggressive than the other one I don't I don't really care who started I'm just wondering was it a mutual fight it definitely looked like the guy in the truck was being more aggressive than the other but um they both threw punches at each other OK from the independent witness who is not associated with anybody it kind of sounds like you guys were just fighting each other so can't be doing that in public yes sir not planning on taking anyone to jail I hope it doesn't come to that I hope so too I'm hoping it's just gonna be a couple tickets and people get on their way okay yes sir sit tight for me you can sit in your car if you want or you can sit on the bench and I'll be right back with you alright in most US states criminal liability for a fight depends on participation not who struck first if two people voluntarily engage in physical combat officers may cite both parties under public order law this differs sharply from self defense which requires a reasonable response to an immediate threat courts generally expect a person acting in self defense to stop once the danger has clearly passed once verbal insults escalated into a physical confrontation both drivers became legally exposed independent witness statements were decisive since officers relied on outside accounts not just each driver's version corroborated third party testimony consistently outweighs conflicting statements from the people directly involved this evidentiary principle applies in nearly every jurisdiction that handles mutual altercation cases a separate legal question involves the collision itself apart from the fight that followed in most states a driver who strikes another vehicle from behind is presumed to be at fault this presumption exists because trailing drivers are expected to maintain a safe following distance however the presumption is rebuttable meaning it can be challenged with sufficient evidence a claim that another driver deliberately brake checked a vehicle requires independent corroboration to succeed without supporting evidence officers cannot issue a citation based on an unverified brake checking allegation so you guys were face to face here and you should have you threw the first punch I didn't throw any punches so he just clocked me in the chin he hit me right about here do you know what hand I wanna say he's right he looked like he was right hand dominant when he tried to go at me again and he hit you on this side oh he got me good so was my jaw so was he stand where was he standing when he hit you he was probably like about where you were and but he just leaned into it or maybe a little closer okay and then he got back in my face and he like kept pushing me back I kept walking back and I had my hands down cause I if he hits me again it was I was just gonna pop in your face and he was on the phone with cops the uh the blue Honda was on the phone with cops did he hit you with his right hand on your right hand side of the face I wanna say that was his right hand cause he kind of maybe it was left one of his hands talking I couldn't tell you cause I wasn't expecting it he just brake checked you completely where at like here I wanna say he hit his brakes at about the truck and he stopped at about the truck it was super sudden and why do you do that I got a nicer car than him I don't know honestly I was swerving around behind the truck yeah so he was he was in the truck I was in the mini so he brake checks you you hit him with a mini then what happens then he gets in my face what do you guys pull over right here at that point so you pull over right here no he gets out of the road he wouldn't let me in here because I was I was trying to just pull over so you stopped right here in the road about yeah maybe I want to say his tailgate was like right with that body line of the OK that front door OK cause I was so explain it we weren't there man so you need to do a little bit better of the job so I got hit in the face I'm a little I know I I get that and you don't want to see medics right I don't think my job and you're grabbing the left hand it's last well he hit me like this I lose this job this job doesn't hurt that bad actually he hit me this side but it popped my nose so you get out you're here what happens after you rear end the guy oh he gets in my face immediately so he gets out of his car yes and then he comes right at me like aggressive like super aggressive and you're sitting and I was in my car I was sitting in my car I got out because he got out I thought he wanted to say where to pull over and then he gets in my face and he's trying to fight me at the first time he tried to fight me and then he tries to fight me when he pulls over cause I told him pull over he pulls over after I thought he was gonna run sped up super quickly and then I pull over and try to get the car started and then he gets in my face he well it probably took a second but he gets back in my face after you guys pull over and then you get out of your car and you're on the sidewalk I'm I was standing on the sidewalk I didn't want to confront him because he's being aggressive and I don't know okay so you get out of your car you get on the sidewalk he gets out of his car and then what and he's just aggressive the whole time and then well I get it's like 30 seconds after he gets out of his car gets in my face and clocks me in the jaw he doesn't say a word just walks right up to him clocks him in the jaw he was he was calling me names what was going on was we're at I don't know what happened to Silver K but he started tailgating him going really fast swerving back and forth he this guy stops for the intersection for the light he pulls up in the light next to him got in the ridgeline calls him g*y dude that was behind here in the little green car uh he's like I was directly behind the ridgeline he swerves in front of him back into the northbound lane gets right behind this guy tailgates him ridgeline slams on his brakes doesn't know if there was traffic ahead of him or if he just slammed on his brakes but slammed on his brakes Winter Cooper rear ends the ridgeline they get out have some words they're both chest to chest yelling at each other guy on the ridge line kind of pushes this guy back he comes back at him he threw on the ridge line throws a punch he pushes him back and then they both start throwing punches at each other oh he clocked me right and you don't say anything to him I didn't say anything I just started backing up cause I was ready to hit him if he kept coming at me I was gonna I'm sorry but I was gonna hit him because he he hit me I was like it is what it is can I can I can I press charges on him for hitting me so right now everybody's gonna get charged it's gonna be disorderly conduct for fighting in public I wasn't I didn't I was witness saw you guys throwing punches at each other that's from working that's an involved witness said that they saw that's old okay so go grab your stuff real quick we'll talk about it dude take a seat please how do I get charged if I didn't hit him take a seat I I was talking to the whole time sounds like we have a witness that's uninvolved that saw both of you throwing punches at each other so I should have hit him with what you're saying I don't know god if you didn't hit somebody I don't want you to say you hit someone but also if you did hit someone how can I get how can I get charged for something I didn't do we have a witness uninvolved party that said that they saw both of you throw punches and the whole time I've been talking to you dude so I don't know what the so what happened at Circle K at Circle K he said you guys got into some kind of incident at Circle K no way maybe that's why he was chasing me I don't know I never got into anything with anybody there so that's just what I got from my partner said this all started Circle K what I was just driving my car OK did he throw punches back at you he he like he chested up to me no I like I threw a punch I up I didn't I didn't want to do that but no like he was just he was threatening me like in my face what was he saying like pretty much that he was like he he would kick my *ss if I did anything OK you know yeah OK and then really quickly what caused you to slam on your brakes uh there was like there was a few cars right in front of me there was no like I didn't have a huge gap in front of me and he was chasing after me and I just got on my brakes like kind of hard but like I wasn't even intending to brake check anybody or anything like he chased me out of the turn lane and like I was telling you and I have a witness to corroborate that he got cut off by him in the turn lane yeah yeah you like he like he didn't cut me off he pulled behind me and started chasing me he cut off the witness it was directly behind me yeah so wild I I didn't want to start I wasn't trying to start anything with anyone and then there's these kids doing burnouts behind me like like doing for tire traction like car racing I'm like just chill out guys like okay so tight so what am I getting charged with another key legal distinction lies between disorderly conduct and assault charges disorderly conduct typically covers public fighting that disturbs the peace regardless of injury severity assault charges generally require proof of intent to cause harm to a specific person when both parties actively participate in a fight prosecutors often favor the lesser public order charge this approach avoids assigning sole blame in situations where fault is genuinely shared between both sides it also reflects prosecutorial discretion which allows lower level charges when aggravating factors are absent a separate charge emerged after officers confirmed damage to a side mirror at the scene intentionally damaging another person's property during a dispute is treated as a distinct criminal offense this charge exists independently of any assault or disorderly conduct citation from the same encounter leaving the scene does not eliminate liability once witness corroboration confirms that the damage occurred property offenses tied to physical altercations are frequently prosecuted alongside public order charges I think he said disorderly conduct even though I didn't touch him I don't know if you didn't touch him or not trying to see if there's cameras somewhere that could have caught it prove your innocence the reckless driving charge is gonna come from you guys driving up here swerving in and out of traffic and then you cut off the blue red or the blue car causing this guy to slam on his brakes and you rear ended him how did I cause him to slam on his brakes you cut off traffic and caused a collision cause of it he let me in what you guys are kind of saying though is next time I should hit him just cause you guys are saying I should just call us not because I did no because you're saying I should so did he cause much damage to your pickup I don't think very much no honestly no like there these gouges and like I I'm gonna check like the hitch but yeah I honestly so piece of his plastic I'm still going to do a collision report on even though there's not a whole lot there his is kind of reportable yeah it's reportable yeah that's correct so you're not being charged with assault okay thank you I am I am writing you a ticket for disorderly conduct okay it's a city municipal code violation submissive in a crime for fighting in public okay okay he's gonna get one too okay uh I don't have any evidence to say you brake checked him or anything like that so no traffic violations for you it's just gonna be a collision report don't worry he came at me no and you got right back up in his face and started pushing him I didn't push him I swear to god I did not push him I got witnesses that say you guys were chest bumping that you were yelling at each other I told him to knock it off so that's not what he said right what he said you guys can plead your case in court can I know what he said yeah he said you were gonna kick his *ss he said I'll show up and so this is a this is a criminal charge it's a criminal charge but it's a misdemeanor and it's a lower than it's a lower than assault oh it's lower than like fourth degree assault yes OK so it's a city municipal code violation but it's a criminal offense OK OK OK so that's fair I get it I don't know what happened between you guys on the road but make sure you're on probation that's gonna make what you have stitch worry about that later take it up with them yeah we'll fight it baby we'll fight it we'll do our best we'll try to get it mitigated okay he told me he was gonna kick his *ss if I did anything told me the same thing yeah and he's getting a ticket and so are you so the other thing is I know you told my partner that you turned back and explain because you decided you want to go this way that's BS because you cut off the witness was right behind him you don't cut people off in traffic you're gonna be getting a ticket for reckless driving I'm getting a ticket either way but I don't know what happened is it not wrong for somebody to do that if someone intentionally causes a collision yeah but I have no evidence that's what he was doing the whole time I think you know you screwed up yes sir he did some stuff wrong too yes sir nobody's in the right here yes sir okay fine have a better day OK we will one more question yes sir I forgot about him when he got out of his car he immediately kicked my mirror off immediately he kicked it off you wanna come look at it yeah oh he did this yeah it's so he hopped out of his car and did that OK backed away and then I got it so the witness that I that I talked to you did say you saw saw hit your mirror or something I didn't know that you did this yeah I did I so this wasn't like this before no where's the rest of it the collision also carries civil consequences that are separate from any criminal citation insurance companies typically apply the same rear end presumption when determining fault for a claim however insurers may also weigh dashboard footage witness statements and vehicle damage patterns a criminal citation does not automatically decide the outcome of a related insurance dispute officers chose to issue citations rather than make an arrest in this encounter this reflects a legal standard requiring only probable cause not proof beyond a reasonable doubt probable cause simply means a reasonable belief that a violation occurred based on available evidence a formal conviction would require a higher evidentiary standard presented later in court body camera footage plays a growing role in resolving conflicting eyewitness accounts statements recorded immediately after an incident generally carry more evidentiary weight than later recollections this is one reason investigators prioritize collecting statements at the scene rather than afterward charging both drivers also reflects a principle of equal treatment under public order law selectively charging only one participant could expose a department to claims of biased enforcement consistent charging standards protect both public safety and procedural fairness at the same time based on these legal standards the truck driver receives a grade of D+ independent witnesses identified him as the more aggressive party and the first to throw a punch the added property damage charge reflects a pattern of escalation that went beyond any claim of self defense the Mini Cooper driver receives a grade of C+ for his role in the encounter his aggressive driving directly contributed to the collision even though he did not start the physical fight the responding officers receive a grade of a minus for basing every charge on corroborated evidence rather than Assumption this case offers several practical lessons for drivers involved in roadway disputes walking away from an escalating confrontation is almost always the legally safer choice independent witnesses often determine the outcome more than either driver's own account of events aggressive driving can create legal exposure even for someone who never throws a single punch property damage committed during a dispute can lead to charges long after the initial confrontation ends contacting law enforcement early is consistently safer than confronting another driver directly let us know in the comments if there is a legal topic you would like this channel to break down next thank you for watching this analysis don't forget to subscribe for more legal breakdowns of police and public interactions