Sorry it took so long for me to get around to talking to you. I know I had to touch base with you hours ago and told you I'd talk to you soon but these things always take a little bit longer. Um Have you ever done this before? Have you ever been in a police interview? Have you ever been in trouble or anything like that? No. >> Never been in the back of a car before, Paige. >> No criminal history at all? Well, it's not really like the movies. It's you know, it's a lot more just talking and I'm just trying to gather the facts of the case I can from different people's perspectives. Um yours obviously is a very very important one, right? Um I don't know anything about you. I just know kind of what what people have told me so far. Um from what I've heard from other statements and officers and their observations and stuff, you're potentially a suspect in this case. You understand that, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Because you're a suspect in this case, I want to make sure that you are very clear on your constitutional rights. So this is the first form that we're going to go over, okay? This is your Santa Fe Police Advisory/Waiver of Constitutional Rights, okay? Before answering any questions asked by Detective Javier Vigil, that's me. Of the Santa Fe Police Department, I fully understand the following. Sorry about that. I understand that I have the right to remain silent. Do you understand what that means? >> Yeah, I have the right right to the right to be quiet about whatever Yeah. >> If you understand that, please initial there. >> Other challenge. These are interesting challenge. I'll probably initial here. Okay. >> I understand that anything I say during this interview can be used as evidence against me in a court of law. Do you understand that? Okay. Initial there. Is there anything else you want to initial there? >> Yes. Here you go. And here's this. >> No. I understand that I have the right to an attorney before and during questioning and at all times. Do you understand that? >> I think so. I >> I can read it again if you want. >> Yeah. Um I'm able to get an attorney at any time? >> Yeah. Before, during, and after questioning. At any time you're you have the right to an attorney. If you understand that, please initial there. >> I just don't know how to get an attorney. >> I understand that if I cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for me without cost to me or to my family. Do you understand what that means? >> Yes. I think so. Sir, I'm still half asleep. >> It's okay. Take your time. We don't have to rush through these at all. I understand that if I cannot afford an attorney. So, if you don't have the money to pay for one, one will be provided to you without cost to you or to your family. >> Yeah. I'll end up having one that's provided for me. >> Number five. I understand that if I decide to answer any questions or make any statements, I still have the right to stop answering at any time. Do you understand that? >> Yes. I'm so excited. >> It's okay. >> I have been advised of the above-mentioned constitutional rights and acknowledge that I fully understand them and have had them explained to me to my satisfaction. Furthermore, I consent to answer questions pertaining to This is the case number for this incident we're investigating. 2022-011401 which occurred on 10/29/2022 and I do not wish to have an attorney present. I also understand that even though I consent to this interview, I can stop answering questions anytime I wish to do so. Do you understand all that? >> Yes. >> Okay. Do you understand? Please sign here, date, time. >> Ow. You have a cut like that. Right here. Right here. >> Today is uh 10/29 of 2022. And the time right now What is the day, girl? It's 7:15 p.m. >> I want seven hours of sleep. You know what I was feeling so cranky right now. Do you have a cigarette or a first cigarette? I didn't ask anybody. >> Some of the cops sometimes have some. >> Well, I only smoke in my room and that's not classy. >> How old are you? How old are you? When's your birthday? Well, let's start with some of the basic information, okay? Spell out your name for me. What's your first name? >> Kiera. K. >> Spell it for me. >> K I A R A >> Okay. Your last name? >> McCauley. >> Spell it, please. >> M C C U L L E Y >> Your date of birth again? I know you just told me. What's a good phone number for you? >> Um if I can ever figure out where my phone is. I lost it in my room and then people showed up and I got very confused. Um My number is 971 381 0111 and if you can't get a hold of me, my mother's number also works. >> Okay. >> Did you know that already? >> No, but hopefully someone else got it, but why don't you tell me anyway? What number is your What's your work number? Well, any idea why you're here today? >> Uh I believe it's cuz somebody was found dead in my room. >> Where is your room at? >> In the garage. >> The garage? >> Yes. I was trying to make sure this wasn't a freaking dream again. This feels so weird. >> Um You believe someone was found dead in your room? Do you have any idea who that might be? >> Well, I'm really tired, but uh last night Isaac invited my ex-girlfriend, Grace Turnings, who now has this going by Yumeko. I don't know anymore. She's gone through so many name changes. It's confusing me. I always knew her as Grace or Rose. I was really upset, so I just went on a walk and slept most of the night in the house. It's pretty. I was trying to sleep, but If you want to talk to memories with me again, damn it. Sorry. >> Who are you talking to? >> Um my best guess is that I have DID, but I'm not 100% certain. >> What's DID? >> Dissociative identity disorder. Um I haven't had it actually diagnosed, but that's my best guess from my research. >> Mhm. >> Um they're different personalities that come out. >> Do you have names for them? >> Some of them, yeah. >> What are their names? >> Um there's Abby and um then there's we call her Jinx because she hates people saying her real name. >> Jinx? >> Yeah. >> Jinx. >> If you say her real name, she gets so mad. >> How old is she? >> Then there's one personality that I haven't seen in a long time. Like I haven't communicated with her. It's with what I don't know. And it was Jess. >> Jess? >> Jessica, but we always called her Jess. >> Any other personalities? >> There's the little version of me, which actually responds to my biological name. My government name. Which is very dangerous for her and I don't I don't want her to get hurt. I don't want us to. >> She She responds to Kiara? >> Yeah. >> And that's the little version of you? >> Yes. >> What do you mean by that, the little version of you? >> It's like a little kid before bad [ __ ] start happening in my life. >> What kind of bad stuff happened in your life? >> Um oh, bad bad relationship with my mom. Which why I never wanted to see Grace, but pissed me off by bringing her to my house. She did something really stupid and I wanted to see her change and I wanted to see something happen where she would admit it, but she's just Is she alive or dead? >> Grace? >> Yeah. >> You don't know? >> I'm not sure. >> What do you think? >> Well, I'm partially hopeful for her to be dead, but I'm also like confused. Like was I'm like >> Why would you hope that she's dead? >> Uh I'm just angry at her, but I also will have hope that she'd be better, but it's like this frustrating emotion that I can't seem to pinpoint. >> Well, tell me why you're angry at her. >> When I need to keep my [ __ ] together because I get very upset. >> Yeah, very angry. >> Back in 2016, there was a video floating around of a 14-year-old girl getting hurt and another girl standing there collecting money from them. There were There were 16 or 17 guys involved. >> Wow. >> The one getting money was Grace. The other one was me. >> I'm sorry. It sounds like a difficult memory. >> I was still a virgin, so I never got to >> Yeah. >> get to that. >> That's hard. Thank you for sharing that. I know that was probably something difficult to share, especially with the train going. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, now I have a little bit of background of >> Why do I have an answer? >> Okay. That makes sense. Okay. >> She kept trying to push it and I finally started getting those memories back from that situation and found out that somebody, not quite certain who it was, put me Calm. Calm. Calm. >> So, what you got to do? >> I need to calm myself down. There was a car crash and that's the only reason why I'm still here. So, I'm like playing with this cuz it's like I need to calm myself down. >> Yeah. >> And it will not stay down. She was the first person I ever loved. >> Grace was? >> And the first person to completely destroy me. Part of me hates her guts and wants to see her dead. The other part wants to see her get better and see if she'd admit it just fix it. Cuz like I'm split. I don't know what's the better emotion. Fighting between them is really challenging. >> Sure. >> That's why I didn't want her in my home. It's just like, this is too much. >> Yeah, a lot of emotions there. How long did you guys date for? >> This I don't really remember how long it was. >> Years? Months? >> Probably months. >> Months. Less than a year? >> I think so. >> How long ago was this? What year did you guys date? >> It was 2015, 2016-ish. 2016 was when the video was from, when it went around. >> Have you gotten in contact with her since then? >> I've contacted her once in a while just to like check on her. >> Sure. >> Usually she tells me to leave me alone and I just disappear. Last night it really frustrated me cuz about a week ago I messaged her, she told me to leave you told me to leave her alone and I did. And Isaac to invite her to stay with us. >> Why did you do that? >> Cuz she suddenly homeless. She suddenly needed somebody. He's done this with so many people. It's very frustrating. >> Tell me about Isaac. >> He's an idiot. >> Yeah. Who is Isaac? >> He's Max's fiancee slash friends, confusing as hell. >> Ex-boyfriend, ex-fiancee. Yeah. Also >> We were engaged for 3 years. And we broke up in April this year and this cuz he was a [ __ ] idiot. And I forgave his ass. I let him move back in with me. Okay, I keep thinking you were sitting on something. Did I just kick you? >> Yeah, you're good. >> Okay. >> So, where do you live? >> I live in the garage with Isaac. At my mom's house. >> What's the address to your mom's house? >> 5941 Jaguar Drive. >> Okay. So, from what I understand, and tell me if this is accurate, there is a primary residence 5941 Jaguar Drive. There is a bit of a backyard. And then there is a garage. >> Oops. >> So, you and Isaac live in that garage? >> Yes. >> Cur- currently, as of last night, you guys lived in that garage? >> Yes. I really hope my cats are okay. >> But but he's your ex, but you guys live together in that garage? >> Yeah. Trying to stay friends, and it's like still acting like we're together, and I felt bad because I made him homeless for like 2 weeks. How do I stop feeling bad for people? >> You guys have sex with each other? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That must get confusing, right? That's your ex, but you guys are still being intimate. >> Yeah. He wants to fix everything, and it's just gotten so complicated. Relationship problems. >> Yeah. Ever- everyone has those. Who else lives at 5941 Jaguar Drive? >> It's just me, Isaac, and my mom. >> What's your mom's name? >> Laney McCully. >> Does she live in the garage, or does she live in the the main structure? >> The main house. >> Okay. Tell me about last night. What did you do last night? >> Oh. So, a little more detail than prior? >> Yeah. >> So, Isaac tells me that Grace is coming over. Okay. Without asking me if it's okay. Is it okay if she comes over? It's like, she's coming over. >> Yeah. It's your house, your mom's house. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The garage is supposed to be my space. >> I immediately get angry. I go in the house, get dressed, go on a walk. >> Where did you walk to? >> The park across the way. I point at it as if you could see it. Wow. >> Where did you get dressed in? What were you wearing? >> That was um black um medieval piece and some black paint. Black pants. >> Sounds cool. Sounds interesting. Okay. So, you go to the park and then what? >> I just kind of sat there listening to some music and had a couple cigarettes. Trying to calm myself down cuz I'm just like I just need to come back. It's just going to be an hour. Don't worry. [ __ ] Go back. They start talking about phones and Marvel and stuff that I don't really understand as much. I have nothing to have in the conversation. >> Sure. >> He left me alone with her for like half an hour. And she was going through like this breakup thing. She's There's always something in her life. Always just something. >> How was that being alone with her for all that time? >> I was trying to be a good friend and just She ignored me. >> Yeah. So, around what time would you say she came over at? >> It was midnightish. I could check my text messages, but I don't have my phone. >> Yeah, I get you. >> What? >> So you guys were alone for half an hour and then and then what happened? >> And then Isaac came back and started feeling frustrated cuz she wasn't listening to me at all. So I got up and I left for a while. I don't know. >> Grace What's your cut from? >> I dropped a knife last night which was what I was just about to mention. >> That's a tough It's a tough spot to get a cut at. >> Yeah, it's It's a risky one to look. It's actually where I was about to go. I left and went in the house for a bit and then decided to try and make something. Dropped the stupid knife and grabbed it wrong. Got mad and I just walked out of the house for a few minutes. Just like And I went back, cleaned it out. Cleaned it this morning after my shower. Ow. >> So did Grace sleep in the night? >> Fortunately, yes. >> Fortunately or unfortunately? >> Unfortunately. >> Unfortunately. >> I started to get really frustrated and I couldn't fall asleep. >> So she stayed in the garage. >> Yeah. >> And you slept in the garage and so did Isaac. >> Well, she and Isaac were sleeping. I was just staring at the ceiling and trying to find a comfortable spot where I could actually fall asleep. >> Yeah. How did the sleeping arrangements like who slept where or what? >> It was like here's Grace taking over like 50% of the bed. Me on the edge, Isaac on the edge here. >> Okay. >> Not very comfortable. >> So did you get sleep last night? >> No. >> Oh. >> I also didn't get to sleep yesterday. >> Okay. Did anything else happen throughout the night? >> I stared at the ceiling ceiling angrily and just trying to calm down. So she walked over me for so long. >> Who, Grace? >> Yeah. Isaac's walking over me. Tired of it. >> Yeah. What did the morning look like? >> I was like I woke up Well, woke up and just sat up around 9:00 or 10:00. Woke Isaac up at like 10:00. Woke up Isaac. And her alarms kept going off really annoyingly. >> Grace's what? >> Yeah. She just would not turn them off. >> Mhm. >> Her cats kept growling. She has two cats of her own. Animals. >> Oh, she brought them to the garage, too? >> Yeah. She kept them in a bag all night. Just not nice. Next thing I remember is going to go take a shower. >> Do you remember >> There's a whole chunk missing. I don't understand. I'm confused. >> So, you have a whole chunk of memory missing? >> Yeah. >> But, you remember the whole night clearly? >> I can't remember most of it. It's like a little foggy cuz I'm like obviously exhausted. And there's this chunk just missing that I just I'm so confused. >> Tell me about these other personalities. What's Abby like? >> She's very protective. About all little people though. protective. Mostly Akihara. >> For little Akihara? >> I'm Froggy by the way. That's what everyone calls me. Froggy. >> Froggy? >> Yeah. >> Like F R O G G Y Froggy? >> I E technically. >> I E Froggy. >> And there's three G's cuz that's also my stage name. >> Spell that for me? >> F R O G G G I >> That's interesting. Froggy. >> Yep. >> Froggy, Abby, Jinx, Jess, Jessica, and then little Akihara. >> No, but Abby's very protective. >> Mhm. >> She takes control when I'm in a very dangerous situation and just does okay, I'm here now. I am going to face this for you. She'll do that to me and Akihara. Jinx is a troublemaker. Doesn't like people. >> More of a loner type? >> Yeah. And she likes playing games. Like Sometimes when I'm I like I can see what she's doing. It's very confusing. She's like texting people and just messing with their heads and I'm just like, what the [ __ ] are you doing? Jess is I haven't seen her in forever. >> So, how does it work? Can you kind of Are you kind of like Is Froggy kind of at the top of all of it and she can kind of see who's who's doing what or >> Pretty much. It's like Froggy's in charge most of the time. Froggy also had a previous name which was Sage for a long time, but But like I'm here. And I wish I had my hands. So, imagine you're in a house and there's a big TV with a PS4 or Xbox or whatever whatever your preference preferences there's a whole group of people who are wandering throughout the house and all wanting to play the game. >> I see. >> So whoever is playing the game is in charge and sometimes you can peek over and kind of see what's going on. >> I mean everyone can kind of watch the game but only one person can play. >> Yeah. And then sometimes this personality decides oh I'm going to go to this room but can't see the TV. Or gets literally shoved in there. Sometimes it feels like it's getting shoved. >> Yeah. >> Like you get randomly locked in a room or something and you don't know what the hell's going on. >> Okay. >> And then you're playing your game and you don't know what the hell's going on. >> Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. That's a really good analogy you gave there. It really helps me understand it. >> And like each Let's see. Um round or each memory kind of gets stored away. >> Mhm. >> And whoever was playing gets to hold that like I don't want anyone else to see it. It's in my Yeah. >> I can relate to that. >> But if they feel okay, you need to know this happened >> They'll share it. >> Yeah. They'll share it. >> So who who was playing the game last night? >> Um I felt like I was in control for a little while and then it just kept getting really foggy like I was being thrown in a into a fog. I can't see anything. >> You're in control meaning foggy, right? That's who I'm talking to now, foggy. Okay. Okay. >> It felt like I got like this shoved into a a room. >> A room like >> Looks like This just before I went to take my shower. >> That was today? >> Yeah. >> What time did you take a shower? >> I don't remember. I was looking at the clock. >> After morning? >> I think so. >> Were people awake? >> Yeah. >> But before that you remember everything? >> I don't know. I just felt something like I felt a lot of anger. >> Of course. >> More so than >> Of course. >> Phoenix has ever had or Abby's ever had. And I don't remember Jess being like that. But she was also the one who was out more when she was with Grace. >> You said something interesting earlier. You said um you asked about Grace. You asked if she was okay and you said that part of you would be okay if she was dead, right? >> Yeah. >> That's honest. I like honest people. >> I don't want to lie. >> Yeah. Um have you ever thought about hurting her or killing her? >> I thought I had a couple dreams like that. >> You had a couple dreams like that? >> Yeah. >> How those dreams go? >> Um They were mostly right after we broke up, but then the way they were triggers and stuff, but >> Did you kill her in those dreams or what happened in those dreams? >> Sometimes I would kill her, sometimes I would torture her, sometimes it was just me screaming at her. >> How would you torture her in your dreams? >> Basically reenacting what she did to me to herself. >> Oh, okay. So you're the one kind of taking the money and she's the one. >> Yeah. >> I see. Not making it worse. >> I see. And how would you kill her? >> Um >> In your dreams? >> Dependent on the dream. >> So, there's several dreams? >> Yes. >> How many? >> It's probably like a bunch of murder dreams, if you could call that. About a lot of different people. >> Not just Grace? >> Yeah. Grace is like the number one I am pissed at you. And I'm pissed at like Aussie. Which okay, I'm going to not talk about that, cuz that's going to >> Let's focus on Grace. We don't have to make you upset. >> No, it's just going to start a whole tangent and I'm going to get like slightly angry. >> That's fine. So, it's not like I'm telling Grace a number of times. >> Yeah. I have dreams about it all the time and I'm like, "Someone let this one look like in my brain." >> Do you use weapons or what do you do? >> Um I create torture devices out of sex toys. >> What kind of sex toys? >> Usually a dildo and then put razor blades on it and cover it in lemon juice. And salt and vinegar on it. I also thought about doing that to Aussie. >> Razor blade dildo with lime juice, that sounds painful. >> Yes. The whole point is torture. >> That's true. True. Okay. Um Have you ever talked about this Isaac about this? >> Yeah. He I you know for certain he has DID. I was doing research about it and this is my guess about what's going on with me. He thinks I have BPD. Which is like borderline personality disorder. Cuz we're very similar and there's >> Is Isaac diagnosed? >> Yes. As As far as he told me, he's diagnosed and he's not just wise. I'm starting to question him. Like what? >> What is DID? I'm sorry. Excuse me. >> Dissociative identity disorder. >> Dissociative identity disorder? >> Like previously What was that word? Previously known as multiple personality disorder. >> Okay, that's the one I was thinking of. >> Yeah, that's what I was >> the one you were thinking >> No. >> Okay. >> Yes. I'm only guessing cuz I'm not actually diagnosed. This is just what I've noticed personally. >> Oh, Isaac takes any uh medications? >> Uh I don't think he does. >> You don't think he does? And um like I was asking, I think we got sidetracked, but have you ever talked to Isaac about kind of your feelings towards Grace and you wanting or dreaming about killing her and stuff? >> I've talked to him about my dreams of killing Grace one time. >> Absolutely. >> He always has this hope that she'll be better than she was and he was the one who found the video in the first place. He found me and he tried to help me. I'm just I don't know what it cost. Yeah. Shh. Stay down. >> Away from Aside from Have you ever planned to hurt Grace or kill Grace? >> really plan it, more like wrote a short story about it. But then I also changed all the names and genders and stuff, so. >> You wrote it like on on paper, typed it, or what? >> It was um on Google Docs. >> Google what? >> Google Docs. >> Oh, Google Docs. >> Yeah. >> On the computer or on your phone or >> Uh I think it was more on my phone originally when I wrote it. I like writing and it helps me like get out those feelings. >> What's the story about? >> Um it was about this older brother who was trying to protect his little brother from a pedophile. But then turned into a satire. >> Mhm. >> It's literally called I hate guns cuz he never uses guns. I I actually agree. I don't like guns that much. Not when one's shot next to your head. Okay. >> Were you uh were you talking to Isaac last night? Were you guys messaging each other and >> I was trying to tell him to get her to leave. >> Did you guys say anything else? >> I just wanted her gone. >> So I was talking to Isaac for a long time earlier before you and um we're going through his phone. He had his phone on him. There's a lot of messages between you two. >> Yeah. >> What were all those about? You know what I'm talking about, right? >> Yeah. It's like in this kind of foggy area that I kind of remember. >> Yeah. >> This might sound really weird. So there's an organization that Isaac is in charge of. I probably shouldn't be saying this to a cop. >> There's a lot of messages about it. We're just trying to understand it, Marina. >> Well, that it's called Ghost. They're like an underground version of cops in a way, but a little more intense and deadly. Um they get rid of people who are to and Huh? parts in charge of sex trafficking, in charge of anything that has to deal with hurting kids. >> I see. >> And like he kept trying to tell me just do it and you're going to just just kill her. Then you'll get wrapped up. >> I see. >> He had me join. And I'm like, I don't know what the [ __ ] going on and I kept hesitating. It's like >> What's that thing there? >> It's a the mark for uh Honestly, I'm very confused because he hasn't told me jack [ __ ] Just gave this to me and it's like, now you're a part of it. Like, okay. >> Sounds like a [ __ ] initiation tattoo kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> How did he How did he do that? How did he make it? >> Oh, I have a tattoo machine. >> Oh, okay. Got you. Is it >> It's on my elbows. >> I was going to ask. Yeah, you got some work there. >> Yep. I also have one on my leg here. >> Are you like aspiring to to learn? Like >> So much. >> You're so good. >> But I just been wanting to cover this up and I can't find an artist that's cheap. >> I like tattoos. >> You can tell. >> I can obviously tell. Let me see the one that um >> [ __ ] no, no, this one. >> Here, you're telling us about. >> Yeah. >> What is it exactly? >> It's for the platoon that I'm in that I don't understand. >> Mhm. >> Like >> What kind of shape is it? >> Sure. It's like a mix of a diamond or something. My skin is reacting really weird to these handcuffs. >> So some ghosts in an underground society of people that kind of their own version of cops and justice. They kind of kill bad people. And so and this is kind of me trying to piece together kind of like what you're saying, like the messages I saw too was Isaac trying to push you to kill Grace? >> Yeah. I had my dagger in my hand. And I took like and then just stopped like I felt a little kid's hand holding back. Like it was Kiara telling me don't don't. Don't. Cuz that was also her best friend's sister. >> Yeah. >> And things got so messy. And it sucked. >> Do you think you killed Grace? >> I'm not sure about it. >> She is dead. That's the dead person found on the ground. Do you have any memory of that? I should get that just like what I'm trying to process this properly. This is like a computer. Did I Don't don't. Like Isaac disappeared for a while. I don't Like after I took my shower I couldn't find him. I just assumed he went on a walk. I'm very confused. I'm like trying to think. What the [ __ ] >> Do you remember when the police ran into the house? >> I just remember my heart going like crazy. >> Okay. >> Don't know. It's like I'm not used to cops just showing up at my house. >> They told me you ran inside. How come you ran inside? >> Um I'm pretty sure certain that I was going to grab something I forgot. Oh Hey. >> You saw cops and then you ran inside get something you forgot? >> No. I thought I heard something, but I didn't know it was from my house from my house. >> When was the last time you saw Grace alive? >> Um Something like this morning. >> Do you remember what time it all >> I'm not sure exactly what time it was. >> Do you think it's possible you killed her? >> I'm guessing myself right now. I'm second guessing trying to figure out if it was one of them >> Mhm. >> or someone I haven't met yet. >> Is there any way to ask them? >> Maybe kill them when they talk. >> I see. >> It was like come on. It took It took Jess and Abby like three almost four years to tell me what the [ __ ] happened. >> From the the incident, yeah. >> I'm sorry. Isaac also showed me the videos. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that was loud and very uncomfortable. >> Yeah. Do you think it's possible Isaac did something? >> It's possible, but I have like mixed emotions. If he did something, I'm slightly happy partially because he hasn't stood up for me in a long time and since Donnie hasn't stood up for me in a long time, so I don't know. >> I don't Was there anyone else in the garage with you guys last night or this morning? >> It was just the three of us. >> Just the three of you guys? >> Isaac lied to my mom and told her that uh Christian, one of our friends, was there. I'm just like Okay. It's not like I'm talking to him. >> Yeah. >> I'm so confused right now. >> Do you think you'll remember more of what happened as time goes on or >> Probably. >> Probably. >> It's like I get the memories back. Like if I feel like I'm unsafe, then it's gone until I'm in a safe place where I feel like I'm okay. So, I'm getting like weird images in my dream while I'm sleeping earlier. Like What the [ __ ] >> So, you were telling me that Grace is kind of at the top of your list of who you want to you thought about killing right now. >> Yeah. Automatic suspect, I know. >> Well, yeah, it's it's not >> Yeah, it's not ideal, but it's not as bad as putting lying about it. >> It was really not. And it's it's interesting that you have that that kind of wisdom cuz most people come in here and >> try to lie their way out of it. >> Yeah, and it's um it's very irritating. Uh Isaac tried to do a lot of that and you know we this is our especially when there's messages and stuff. It's it's very it's very transparent when someone's lying. You know what I mean? >> And how much do you think he tried to lie about? Cuz I'm trying to figure out if he's been lying to me. >> Yeah. >> Talk about black market and ghost and bitcoin and end of the world in 24 days. >> Has Isaac ever killed anyone? >> Well he said he did but I don't know if it's true. >> Who did he say he killed? >> I don't know who but there was a number he said but I don't know if it's true or if it was stupid teenagers who were always saying, "Oh my kill this baby. Oh I kill this baby. Oh I'm so cool." Grace did that a lot. >> There was a number he said like a number of people he killed. >> Yeah. >> How many? >> 40. >> 40 people? >> Supposedly. >> That's a big claim. >> Yeah. >> Is that all of it? Half of it or all of it or >> Probably partially in Roswell. He wasn't a gang or is but he no longer lives in Roswell. It's confusing. >> What gang were you in? >> I don't know the name. >> So you can't say? >> It was like something with Roswell's name in it. >> So how many other people besides from Grace have you thought about killing or on your list? >> Um well there's Aussie. At least I know he's living in a dump so that makes me a little happy. >> Who else? >> Um this guy Brady. I'm trying to be friends with him. I promise. It's just he's pissing me off so much. He said three words I never wanted to hear from him. Considering what he did when we were younger. I love you. >> What else? >> Um Isaac. I do. Honestly. I know a lot of thoughts, but on the lower end about people I used to go to school with. Those are the main like sick of their [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Oh, there was one other. There was Jeffrey Flock. He just He keeps stalking me. I had to prank him by using Isaac's phone to tell him that I went missing so he would leave me the [ __ ] alone. What? Okay, calm down. Calm down. >> So, you said there's a possibility that you might have killed Grace. Also possibility that Isaac might have done it, right? There was kind of that gap of >> Yeah. >> time missing in your memory. It's confusing. Do you ever remember blood being on you? >> Um I remember when I cut myself. But I don't know much more than that. >> And how did you cut yourself again? >> I tried to catch a knife. >> In the kitchen? >> Yes. >> What kind of knife? >> I dropped it and I tried to catch it. It was um Oh, how How do I describe the knife? It was I I should show you. >> Cooking knife? Uh >> Oh, it is a cooking knife, technically. It was just >> Isaac was Isaac was telling me about a few knives. He was talking about a dagger, uh a butterfly knife. >> Yeah, my butter One of my butterfly knives got stolen, so I got a new one. >> And then he was talking about a sword. Remember anything having to do with of those? >> All I know I bought a sword not too long ago. >> What kind of sword is it? >> It was like it's a two-handed sword. I don't really know much else. I just knew it was perfect for the apocalypse if it does come. >> Perfect. >> That's the only reason for the buy. It's like I want to learn. >> Do you remember anything regarding the sword, uh, the dagger, the butterfly knife in last night? >> Um, I remember the dagger. It's really dull. Like I kept playing with it and like when I did try, my hands kept telling me to just do it. And then I and then just It literally feels like somebody's holding me. Felt like it was somebody was holding me. >> So, what you're kind of demonstrating right now, was that you about to stab Grace? >> Yeah. >> Was she asleep? >> Yeah, at least I think she was. >> Okay. >> She looked passed out. But it just kept stopping me. >> Okay. So, you guys consuming alcohol last night or drugs or anything? >> I had a couple sips of uh, Jack I don't know what the hell what it was what it was called. >> Last night? >> Yeah. >> What about this morning? >> Uh, not this morning. I just had a couple last night cuz I was getting like Oh god. Frustrating. >> What about Isaac? Did he drink last night? >> I don't think so. >> No. What about Grace? >> I don't think so. She said something about just getting her teeth done. >> Okay. I don't Just Do you think there's potential you'll ever try and hurt or kill anyone else that's on your list? >> If you guys stay the [ __ ] away from me, I sure as hell hope not. >> Okay. But if like you were near him and stuff, kind of like a situation like last night, there's potential for that. >> know. If they're invading my space, then it's like I think it's a possibility, but I highly doubt it will happen again. >> Mhm. >> Cuz Ozzy hates him. And Brady's to the point that I'm just like, no. Geoff is something I'm missing. >> Okay. Anything else you can think of regarding last night, what happened, anything else you can remember? >> Um I'm trying to figure out if this one vision is from my actual dream I was having cuz I was like falling asleep or if it was a memory. What was the vision? I'm not sure. It looked like an ear on my wall. >> A what? >> An ear on my wall. It was really confusing. >> Was it an ear on your wall? >> Yeah. I think that was part of the dream though. >> Mhm. Like a human ear? >> Yeah. I was like, what the [ __ ] >> What did it look like? >> It looked like one of Grace's, but it had like teeth on it and the teeth are not that sharp. >> Yeah. >> But I was like, what the [ __ ] >> Mhm. Mhm. >> I'm very confused. >> Yeah. Well, still wrapping up the investigation regarding the statements you made earlier. Um I think you're You've been very honest with me. I don't have any I respect the hell out of that. And I'd like to return that to you. There's probably a good potential that both you and I going to go to jail tonight. You understand that? >> I've never been to jail. I've never done anything. Now, going to jail for murder. >> Yeah. >> That was a leap. From innocent to murder. >> Yeah. >> I just don't know. >> No criminal history to murder, you know. >> Yeah. >> That's a huge leap. >> Like I didn't do drugs growing up except Grace. I hate her for it. Sorry. I have some scars on me. That you can see from >> Well, you suspect you have you know, DID, multiple personality disorder, you know. So, >> I'm guessing. I'm not 100% certain. >> I don't know. I'm not I have no training in, you know, psychology or anything like that. The diagnosis you've made for yourself kind of makes sense, but you know, maybe this is kind of an opportunity to to, you know, start getting help for that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. I was seeing a therapist for a while. Um she found I have CPTSD. And the [ __ ] else was it? There's something else. I can't remember now. I don't know what my problem is. >> Yeah. >> So much stuff hurts. So, but I have a suspicion that I have ADHD or ADD. But there's a lot of suspicion. >> Yeah. >> My friend Christian thinks I'm bipolar. I don't think that's right. My research says no. >> Yeah. >> I don't And I'm questioning who to trust at this point? It's like Isaac's like the only person I've ever trusted and needed something really stupid. Broke my thumb and my leg is all got all [ __ ] up. >> When did that happen? >> That was in April. >> April? >> It was the 4th. I had was a police report stuff about it, but then I just told them don't bother. >> Do you remember threatening Isaac last night at all? >> I told him I was mad at him. >> Did you threaten him with a dagger or anything like that? Do you recall anything like that? >> I remember stabbing my bed. >> Stabbing your bed? >> It didn't even go through the blanket. >> How come? >> It's dull. >> But how come you stabbed the bed? >> Cuz I was mad and I wanted to stab something, but I didn't want to hurt someone. >> Why were you mad? >> Because Isaac invited somebody I hate to my house. It wasn't just for a talk as he said. I repeat this line. I'm going to I'm sorry. Turned from an hour to overnight to two nights and I'm like, "Hell no, she ain't staying the night." >> So, why did Isaac want Grace there? >> I am not sure what he wanted. But it was to [ __ ] her, which gross. I say gross. I I I've seen the kind of people she's been with. >> Did he [ __ ] her or not? >> I don't think so. I'm guessing he didn't cuz he said the worst 12 hours of my life. 12 hours of my life. >> He didn't say anything about a threesome or anything like that? >> Usually when she puts my house there was three-way and I'm just like, "I'm not touching her." >> Yeah. You guys have had three-ways before? >> Yeah. They tried. Um He's polyamorous and I'm just kind of there trying and seeing if I like it and sure. It has not worked well. First time, she did not like girls at all. And took all of my nicknames. He took all my nicknames and he started treating me like [ __ ] And then tragedy so then he suddenly disappears again. The last one that was interesting. >> Yeah. >> The last girl we were with, her name was Brittany, I think. She had like five different names that she went by. Just confusing. And she was fun at first but she started trying to get me on the cocaine and I'm just like, "I'll try it once. Okay, this was fun but that's enough." It's a once in a lifetime thing. >> Yeah. >> I was like, "Okay, she's definitely got an issue and I cannot help her with that." I mean, I'm not going to be some another person's freaking What's the word I'm looking for? Rehab? >> Yeah. >> Sometimes I have to think, "What am I What's the word I'm looking for?" And then I can't remember it. >> So again, from what you can remember you don't know who killed Grace? >> I'm not 100% certain. I'm only guessing. I've seen Isaac get violent before. But I know how angry I am at her. Of course he's hulked out before. >> What does that mean to you? Hulks out? >> Well, it seems to It feels like he's growing. It looks I feel like I got rust. That is a smash. A little bit further apart, but you know what I mean. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> And then I turned into a rag doll and I'm still mad about it, but at the same time trying to forgive him. >> So, the uh the sword you said you bought, right? >> Yeah. >> How long ago did you buy that? >> So, I got it maybe 2 weeks ago-ish. >> What about the dagger? >> The dagger was a couple days before that. >> That's yours as well? >> Yes. >> What about the butterfly knife? >> The butterfly knife um was I think a couple days before the dagger. >> Any other weapons that are inside the the garage? >> Um I know I have my karambit somewhere. There's two sets of karambits. They're really pretty. >> Cool. >> I like knives. >> Are they fixed blade or are they folders? What are they? >> Um they're fixed blade. >> Fixed blade. How big are they? >> Um good 12-ish. Ish. It's such a curved blade. It's like I'm not good for cutting anything. >> Yeah. >> I tried cutting a piece of fruit with it and it did not work. >> Too much curve. Well, what we do know um when the officers went through and kind of did a security sweep the garage and everything, um I've been told by a few different people is the sword, which I'm assuming is the sword you're describing, was bloody. >> I really pick it up. >> Yeah. >> Okay, I'm going to be confused. I was already having a hard time picking it up, so I was like, "Okay, now I'm very confused." >> Hard time picking it up. How come? >> I'm not exactly strong. >> Oh, it's heavy? >> Yeah. >> How much does it weigh? >> I'm not 100% certain how much it weighs. I just know my left hand can kind of hit pick it up, but my right hand can't. >> Can you pick it up with two hands? >> I have to. Even then it's all awkwardly and >> Yeah. >> I was going to um take a piece of PVC PVC >> pipe pipe >> pipe Thank you. And kind of weigh it the same way so I can practice. >> Mhm. >> So I can do like some you know, fake sword fighting. >> That makes sense. >> Make a video. I'm guessing I'm not getting it back. >> Um I know. We're going to collect it as evidence. >> It was $200. >> Damn. Where'd you get it from? >> Amazon. >> Amazon? >> That's only good like I just got stabbed. >> Sorry. Well, we're going to do some paperwork on it. See you get some rest. Um anything else you can think of that might be important to us? >> Um My brain's too tired to function. >> I know. Let me get one of the officers. They'll uh move you somewhere else and then as soon as we get all the paperwork done, um Here's what it is. You guys You guys are more likely um going to get booked tonight. You know, all I can do is really gather all the facts and look at all the all the statements and evidence and we we have to do something about this stuff, you know? You know, if things are the way you're saying, I mean, you you kind of want to get this stuff looked at and figured it I mean, I don't think no one intentionally wants to have that that inside of them where they just want to kill people. >> Yeah. >> Maybe some people do. I don't know. >> I got to talk to them. I'm guessing it's just at this point cuz James and Abby are chill at this point. >> You got to talk to some of these girls if your brother was messing around. All right. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your honesty. It is what it is. Okay. All right. The same time you got here, right? Pretty off. >> I was somehow >> No, this is a crime scene at this point. >> How is my house a [ __ ] crime scene? >> There's a deceased person in your garage. That's why it's a crime scene. >> in there? >> Yes. >> What kind of body is it? >> Stand up for me. Just walk this way. >> What the [ __ ] >> Can you come here with me, ma'am? >> The detective involved >> Detective Jared. So, probably take All right. >> They didn't let me go yet. >> Okay. I'll message. Um is that your real name or your nickname? Yeah. How do you spell your first name? >> L A M I >> Okay. L A M I what? >> L A M I >> And your date of birth? So, before we get started, you do that one. So, just out of nice mental rights. Are you wearing glasses? >> No, these are driving glasses. My reading glasses are in the house. >> Okay, well, I'm going to go over it. Um This is letting you know before answering any questions asked by me or uh Detective Gonzalez at the Santa Fe Police Department. You understand your following rights. You understand that you have the right to remain silent. You understand that anything you said during the interview can be used as evidence against you in a court of law. You understand that you have the right to an attorney before and during any questioning at all times. You understand that if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided to you without any cost to you or your family. Uh you understand that if you decide to answer any questions or make any statements, you still have the right to stop answering at any time. Do you understand each of those rights? >> Yes. >> So, I'm just going to write our names right here at the top. Easy? >> Mhm. >> L Easy? >> L Easy. >> Okay. And you? >> I'm you. >> Mhm. Do you know your case number? >> Yeah. 11401. >> Mhm. Oh, so all it is is just that you understand each of those rights and then you can just let me know your case number. Um so, if you can't read it, you can if you want to go over it to verify. >> Yeah, I already did. Thank you. It's explained really well. >> All right. And the bottom of it just says you have been advised of your um constitutional rights, you acknowledge and you fully understand them, and you've been explained to them um to your satisfaction. And you furthermore consent to answer any questions involving this case that after we >> And then what happened? >> Yes. >> And then what happened at the time of 6:21? >> So, do you know why why you're here today? Can you explain to me? >> Well, kind of. It's kind of um apparently someone was killed in my garage. >> Okay. >> Um and my daughter is a suspect. I don't know if Isaac is as well. I'm presuming he is cuz they both live in the garage. Um and the police just kind of showed up with their guns drawn. I mean, that's what I got. >> Oh, yeah. Um So, yeah, just go ahead and start just talk about what happened like when as far as you know what happened today. Um or you could just talk about since the beginning of the day and how everything went and who was there. >> Well, the kids both sleep in the garage. Um they're they're like the privacy. Mom's not around. Don't have to listen to me nag. >> Mhm. >> Or get up early in the morning. Um I let the dogs out at like 7:00 this morning. I came back in. I did chores. And it's hard to tell what I did in my house, but I did. Um mostly laundry and cleaning up the back bedroom. But the way the laundry Um breakfast, lunch. Not necessarily in that order. Um at some point, I think it was about I want to say it was about 1:30, Isaac came into the house. Um he used the bathroom. Um and I asked him for help. I was trying to get this rug into the washing machine. It was kind of heavy. So, he helped me get it in there. Um he said something about um his boss had found a replacement for him at work for this evening. Um which didn't make sense to me cuz today he was supposed to be supposed to be at work. So, unless he called in and then I didn't make sense. He was saying something about he just found it cuz he thought maybe I would be sick or something, you know, it didn't really make any sense cuz usually when you call in and then the boss finds a replacement and it didn't make sense to me what he was saying. Um but we got to bring in the the machine and then I took a shower and then I sat down. I I think that's when we actually had lunch. I'm sorry. I don't pay attention to what I do. I just do it. Um cuz I was watching Picard and playing a game on my phone. My daughter came in and she's always last one to get out of bed. So, I was sleeping at that time. Oh, she's alive. You know, what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> It's so crazy. She just said, "I'm going to go ahead and take a shower." And she got in the shower. Um she came out of the shower and went to the garage, came right back. And she said, "So, Mom, I think something happened in the in the in the garage." And that's about as far as I got when I saw the police officers trying to come through the door. Stop breaking my door. I just this kind of went with the flow. It freaked me out. I didn't I didn't understand what was going on. You know, the people were yelling, you know, get away, clear the area, come over here, go over there. This I'm sorry. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, all things will happen at once. >> And I had no idea what was going on. But they're saying that um Karen got as far as explaining to me that Grace Grace Jenkins had come over to the house last night. Um she and Grace have a background that is not pleasant. Um they actually met my daughter was in third grade, I think, you know. Um and Grace's younger sister Marjorie was my daughter's best friend. So they hung out a lot. They came over and stayed and stayed the night at our house. My daughter went to their house. It was just kind of, you know, kids things. And my daughter was about 14, I want to say, and I don't know, like this is all just off the top of my head. She decided that she had more in common with Grace than she did with Marjorie, so she quit hanging out with Marjorie, which caused some conflict between her and Marjorie. She hung out with Grace maybe a year, year and a half. And that ended um because Grace threatened her. Um I wasn't present, so I don't know for a fact how it happened, but apparently they were at a park. Um Grace pulled a knife, put a knife to my daughter's throat, and told her she wasn't allowed to flirt with this guy named Brady. I don't know what that's about. Anyway, um so my daughter decided that Grace was dangerous, she didn't want to hang around. So um she started making excuses to not hang out with her and stuff like that. And uh Grace started to threatening her on Facebook and whatever it was. Her office. Some social media. Some social media thing. Um and you know, I just told her, "Well, let's block her, you know." But my daughter still kept talking to her, so I finally took my daughter's phone number away. I told her to change your your phone number, you're changing all your social media IDs. So we, you know, went through a lot. And it stopped. Um and it was just weird that a couple of days ago Kiera showed me this Facebook she goes, she's it was Grace's face but she was using some like oriental name like Kim something like that. And me and her and Marjorie was using some name Arlo or something. She was being some guy online and it was >> That's just Facebook? >> Yeah, we're not on Facebook. >> They had their pictures with different names? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And like a whole history of who they were and everything which was not true. Like all of it was mirror. Um but my understanding is that Isaac also knew Grace previously cuz Grace is how Isaac and Kiera met. >> Okay. >> Um if I'm remembering everything correct. So, um and Isaac didn't get along with Grace. And Isaac is very familiar with the whole incident with Kiera. So when Kiera said he invited her over yesterday, he knows Grace is not allowed on our property. That's just been the rule. >> Okay. >> Grace is aware of it. They're aware of it. You know, Grace is aware of it. Um so why Grace would have come over to our property is beyond my understanding. Um and if she was there I have to question why and what happened in that room. >> All right. Um when did they let you know that Grace was staying there? >> While the police were there. >> Okay. >> That's actually when I found out. >> Okay. >> And and what was the nature >> And Kiera and that man were they dating? >> Um that's my understanding. Like they tried that whole relationship thing. I don't think it worked. Um and that didn't work out. I don't actually know. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um but she Kiera was trying to figure out her sexuality or something like that. So it's very likely. >> Okay. All right. Um and as last night. Or did they have more than anyone else that invited over that you know about or >> I didn't even know about anyone being invited over. Um, I did go to bed I would say probably about 10:30 or so in the evening cuz I stayed up late to wash dishes. Um but I took cold medicine. Um, because I have I think I have a respiratory infection. So, um, I took um one of those things there for you. Which pretty much made me go to bed. >> Okay. >> Um but I you know, I was up at 7:00 this morning. There was no indication that anyone was there. That's not true. The dog went to the patio, which is right outside of the garage, and was like sniffing like there was something going on. And there's this kid Christian, who's like the oldest kid in the world. And sometimes he comes and he sleeps in my backyard, which is kind of creepy to me. >> Okay. >> Um, so I thought maybe he was in there. So I went and I peeked into the patio. And there was this box of stuff. I don't know where it came from or what it was. I was like, "Okay, well there's no human in there." So we went back in the back into the house. But um that was really the only indication that there was possibly going to be anything in the house. >> Okay. Do you know Christian's last name? >> I don't. >> Do you know approximately his age or anything like that? >> Oh, he's not quite that old. Um, he's maybe in his early teens. He's a homeless kid. Um, that you might have met at the mall while working at the mall. And he has like a his bike is in my backyard. I don't know if he he came in and rode his bike over once and then left the bike. I don't know what he did. That's all I know. >> Um, and then earlier this morning before the cops and all that came out uh, at any time this morning till the cops showed up, did you hear anything unusual? >> I didn't. But I will say I'm half deaf. I'm I have I'm hard of hearing in my left ear and I have to read lips. So when I have the TV or the heat on, I really don't hear much. >> Okay. So I'm sorry that I'm asking this because um Yes, the Grace is deceased in your house. Um it was a Looks like it's it's a very violent homicide. Um she was cut several times with a sword. So I don't believe she would be quiet. I don't know if it was a quiet death. >> I can't imagine it would have been. >> Did you see them just a couple of days earlier today? >> Like before Grace and then before >> No. >> And he came in the shop and everything? >> No, I saw Isaac first and he didn't seem to indicate that anyone was at the house. You know. Um He didn't say anything, you know. >> Is there Was that behavior kind of unusual? Is that normal? When you saw him? >> He He seemed distracted. But I don't know, you know, if he does that a lot. I mean, you know. I don't know if I should put this on. Trust half of what comes out of his mouth. He's kind of a you know, story teller. So you know, when he's talking it's like something as simple as I called in to say I'm sick on my first day of work rather than Oh, let's see. The boss just got it right. Fix a few things and fill in my position for the day, you know. It's like it doesn't make sense a lot of it. >> Yeah. Okay. Oh, sorry. You were saying something about the sword. Um >> Yeah, she she had a sword. She ordered it I guess on Amazon. >> Carried it? >> Oh, yeah. And um I guess it was her name that it came in her name, but you know, I think he's carried it around all the time. So I don't know if it was a gift or not. But it came in Tuesday or Friday. So we got it. >> Okay. >> And she showed it to me and it was cute. It's as long as our house, yes. >> Uh where where did you guys hang it up again in the >> I didn't. She put She took it in the garage. She took it in the garage. >> Since that day that she showed it to you, have you have you seen it any Have you seen it hanging up with that at all? >> No. No. >> No. Okay. >> I think it was in the garage. I don't >> Okay. Why why did you think it would You said something that was going to You knew it was going to be an issue or it was going to be a problem with that sword. >> Swords are just dangerous to have around you and my daughter is not a safe person. I don't know how to say that, you know, she just She half-ass puts things away. Broken glass shavings all over the ground. You know, she would be So. >> She's just kind of careless. >> Yeah, so I I was thinking, you know, it was all open, you know, left open. That cat would have totally kicked that. >> No, no, okay. >> No, I'm really not. >> No. All right. Take your time. Just take your time. You need to go to the bathroom? Okay, I'm just I'm having a heck of a time sleeping. >> Yes, he's dead. >> Do you know how long um Tara and Isaac have been married? >> Oh. I hate when people ask me that question. Well, it was before COVID, so at least 2 years. >> How long has he been living with her? >> He's been in our house I think March will make 4 years. >> Okay. Okay. And have they always in the front? >> No. >> Initially, they were actually in the front bedroom. >> You can make a lot of room too if you want me to help you with that, too. >> Oh, you can give me a reason to clean it. >> Oh, okay. >> You know, I actually did. Um They spent quite a bit of time initially, they were in that front bedroom. They moved out a couple of times for like a month at a time. Um and then I wouldn't say That's it. Was last >> summer. >> I was cleaning out the garage. I had like 10 people in the family die, like in real close succession. Succession, that's the word. Um so, I had like a bunch of crap in there, you know, just from the family, you know, stuff. So, I finally forced them to throw it all out and clean the bathroom. Which made them mad. There's this stuff everywhere. Yeah, I know. So is your room. But that's beside the point. So, they decided they were going to take the garage cuz it was bigger, there was more room. Plus they had a fortunate air conditioner, and no air conditioner in the house. In the garage. We started insulating it, which was the point, you know, like I cleared it out so we could insulate it. And then they were going to decorate it with whatever they wanted. Anybody who's really there actually is in the guest room. Um >> Is that normal for it to look like that? >> That's nothing. That's really it. Yeah. Mhm. Which is why I was okay with them moving out there because I just got tired of cleaning it up in the house. And then Yeah, the house still has a leak in the garage. I'm very slowly fixing I'm getting there. Big stuff is done. But um you know, I started working on the stuff that was still in the yard yesterday. I'm just going to try to get that cleaned up, so. >> It's safer for the officers in the room on that part at least. >> Mhm. >> I'm sorry. My whole office is going to be honest. It's very embarrassing that I'm here right now. >> Were you able to uh describe their relationships? >> Well, it's it's on again off Um they were engaged to get married at one point. And they seemed very uh happy together. Um they had an incident that I know for a fact was a problem on April 3rd earlier this year um where they got into an argument and um Isaac hit her. He threw her around the room. Um I was the one that took her to the ER. She chose not to press charges. She decided you know she didn't want to ruin his whole life and put him in jail. Um but the state is charging him. Um and then um she's not good with people. She tends to follow what other people are doing, so I think she's been kind of learning some bad habits from him. Um >> What do you mean by that? >> Isaac has been fired from every job he's had for the past >> Yeah. >> And I believe that that is the reason that I got fired from Rue even though she was working at Rue 21 up until 2 weeks ago. Um they swear that uh it was just a loss prevention near it. But there's usually something to be fired for. >> Right. >> And it's her first job. So I would suspect she was probably stealing from from there Because there were a lot of tags on the floor that I just cleaned this week. Which tells me that she's spending money that she made. I know she made a paycheck or two, but she didn't make that much, I don't think. >> Was there any other domestic issues that happened that you know about that just wasn't documented? >> Well, I know that they fight. Um He claims at one point she stabbed him in the arm, I think it was, with like a fork or something. And Um but I know that she's also come in and said that he's hit her, so they fight too. Okay. I did actually kick him out of the house. >> After that incident? >> Yeah. But she kept sneaking him back in the house, which you know, in the middle of the night. And I kept finding some guys in there. So I told the grandma, I said I was like, "Look, if you're going to sneak him in the house, don't sneeze. Tell me he's in brings me in." So, he was living with me because I didn't want him staying. That's where he was living. Even though he's not supposed to be living in this house. >> What's your relationship with your daughter? Are you guys like really close? Or does she just keep herself like in the garage? >> Um well, that's become an increasing issue, actually. Um we used to be really, really close. Um you know, and then there was this period where mom could do nothing right. Teenage girl. And then we we got close again, and kind of the past year or so has been kind of difficult. And I think it's from living in the garage. And it's like that's where he hangs, so she doesn't have to socialize with me. Which kind of bothers me. But I'm okay. tell you anything. It's just, you know, that's too much. That's good. You know, whatever happened there. Right. I think they got in a little crash a little while back. >> Other than the like domestic with Isaac, have you ever known her to be like have an outburst or violent? >> Um when she was 14, I think she was 14. 14, we had a different neighbor than the one we currently have. And they used to throw bottles and rocks at our dogs in the backyard. We had a We had a different dog than the one that's there there now, but um they the woman came out when they said the dog was reaching the fence and I needed to find it. I'll keep the dog down off the fence. I'll fix the fence. It's not the dog. But she decided to say, "Well, if you don't get the [ __ ] dog taken care of, I'm going to kill the [ __ ] dog." And you know, like she like threatened the dog. And the 14-year-old went off. She was like, "You touch my dog and I'll [ __ ] kill you." And I'm like, "Woah, stop that." So, the police were called to our house that day. And I and I sat her down and I explained to her, "We don't say [ __ ] like that." We just don't. We don't threaten to kill people. We don't. And that was the only time that it really hurt her to ever say something. >> And have you ever known her to ever be in fights or >> Arguments, yelling, absolutely. Just not physical. Not usually. >> Um do you know of either of them having drug issues or um alcohol issues? >> Well, I know they drink on occasion and I know that they do pot on occasion. Um Other drugs, no. When did um um Has she always been interested in like swords or was that like a recent thing? >> No, cuz she's always liked swords and knives. We have quite a collection of them now. Mostly pocket knives and >> And she interested in like other things? >> She She's She's like interested in the Middle Ages, you know, in the armor and the everything. She's trying to figure out how to make armor for their thing, you know. And you know, why does why does you know, like How would you swing a mace, you know, that kind of stuff just kind of like how it works. >> In general? >> Yeah. >> Um you know, I was we were we were discussing her possibly joining like the um like the SCA. >> Oh my god. >> So Yeah. >> Probably. >> Yeah, there's like a they're called Amtgard. >> Anyway, one of those role-playing type type groups. >> So she could get more into the history and stuff like that. >> That was something that you guys were trying to work >> Yeah, I um I was in the SCA for like 12 years, so yeah. Um but she's, you know, we've got the garb and and stuff, so she can start going to events, but we haven't nailed down their schedule and my schedule to cross so that I can take her cuz she doesn't drive yet. So I have to I have to drive her. >> Is she into like gaming as well or just Mostly like the >> She does some D&D gaming. >> Okay. >> But that's more of what we do. >> And that's pretty often. Does she have like a group of friends that come? >> She does actually. It's just like her, me, and Isaac. >> Okay. >> And we've played it a couple of times cuz she was interested in knowing how it kind of worked. >> Mhm. >> And yet they went well. >> I've heard those games last six hours. >> They do. And it's like we're making this stuff up and then it was like, "Okay, well, we're kind of bored." >> You can only do it for so long. >> Yeah. >> I don't know how people do it for days, but I don't >> But, uh >> Yeah. And then, she said She's uh an artist, so she does a lot of painting, and so we do craft type stuff. She's got a lot of interests. And she'll she'll sit there. She'll do like um crocheting, and watching TV. So, she multi-tasks so well. >> Uh do you think that either of them is capable of killing someone? >> I can't imagine it unless she felt she was threatened. Um but >> I mean, you know, I'm sure you hear that from every parent. >> Sorry. >> Sure, take your time. Take your time. >> I don't understand what happened. And you don't I can't imagine her doing it. >> How about Isaac? >> Isaac has a temper. And it's a pretty nasty one. Um last year, he broke his sister's closet door. >> Trying to get his mean sister to come out. And it didn't go well. >> Uh So, he's actually on probation for that. I mean, he knocked down the door while they were home. Scared the crap out of us too. And then, uh he hit my daughter, so my violence thing. And I I My understanding is that he's going to be arrested. He didn't cooperate. Um but he's been living with us since he was 21. That's when he came to live with us. So, that's 4 years. Um and he hasn't Yeah, he hasn't done much. He's pretty mellow. Except for this past year. I can't imagine anybody killing her, but that's just kind of mellow. Sorry. >> Do you need more uh >> I will. That's >> Do you want more napkins? I can get you some. Okay. >> No, I think I'm >> Are you sure? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Okay. Well, if you need to, you can spit in there and throw it away after a while. >> I was just in the bathroom cleaning. >> All right. Um you had mentioned that there was a the rug you had washed in the rug. Is that what's in the washer? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Where was that Where was that rug from? Inside the house or >> Um yeah, of My dogs have taken a peeing on it, so it's not urine or anything. Urine. So, I'm just trying to get the urine smell out. >> Okay. >> I had it in the house for a long time, then I put it outside cuz I was trying to clean it and spray it down with the hose and everything. So, it got a lot of leaves and everything filled up in I took it back in the house and I was trying to figure out how to clean it in the machine, but it's laid on the floor just a little too long and it got to peeing. So, I made myself pee this time. >> Okay. >> I think it's the thing that had to happen. Now, I get one of those power washers >> Right. >> and sun it out. You know, all my I used to have a cat door. Get back in the house. Something like he peed on that rug. Is that what you're talking about? I think it's time to re-dye the rug. >> Maybe. >> I'm I'm going to keep trying. I like the rug. >> Um so, I just want to go back. So, earlier today you said that your daughter came in and she said she was going to shower. Um and you kind of gave her her time for eating her food. Where were you in the house? >> I was just sitting in the living room in front of the TV. >> And like is the bathroom is there like a hallway that goes to the bathroom? >> Yeah, so if you come in from the back you can go through the kitchen to the bathroom. Um if you come from the front you can go through the front hall to get to it. So you can approach either way. >> And she came through the back back. >> Okay. Um and you just heard her come in did you see her you just heard her come in? >> her face when she You know um I'm in the living room still when she came. Um but you know she seemed to be fine. It's not like she was bloody or anything she was okay. >> Do you remember what she was wearing? >> Um probably what she's still wearing. No. She would have changed cuz she went to take a shower. >> Um >> Actually she didn't it didn't Honestly it was just a t-shirt. I don't know if she had anything on or She had a towel on. >> Okay. What did you say? >> I was still talking. >> I'm sorry go ahead. >> I didn't mean to >> But you saw her when she came in and go to the bathroom she seemed fine. >> Just like a normal shower. Well I mean you know it's not it's like I just got kind of a glance it wasn't like I was staring at her. >> Okay. >> Everything was fine. >> And then you did say she went back to the garage after her shower? >> Yeah after she took a shower she went she went back out to the garage. She usually goes out and gets her hair brush or whatever you know she leaves her crap in the garage all the time goes back in and gets her stuff. So she went out and then she came running back in and she got as far as saying you know this is just just in she said something about I think something happened in the garage. And that's when I noticed the blood. >> Okay. >> But she she started to tell me there was something wrong in the garage. Cuz she came right back from the garage. So it's possible at that point she would have noticed. And then but I don't you know if if she was participating in it she would have known it was there. >> Mhm. Either time that she walked into the house or walking back to the garage, did she have anything in her hands or >> She had two washcloths in her hand when she came back. >> Okay. And then when she came in to take a shower she didn't have a >> I didn't see her hands. >> I don't think so. >> Okay. Do you have any other questions? >> Did you have any toilet tissue or anything? Um yeah, I will. I will. >> All right. >> If you second and stop pooping doesn't stop there, definitely >> All right. Well, she's got a few minutes to get some out of her system. >> Is it going to Is it going to take a while? I'm wondering if you guys need to still have I didn't know. >> Um it might be a while. Um you can use the bathroom Um if you use the bathroom or tissue we have officers so we'll just give you you know, some bathroom I can go ahead and use the restroom now? >> Let me get one of the officers to go with you, okay? >> Still have one more Um Come.