I'm leaving. >> Nope, you're not leaving. You are not leaving. >> You're right. You're right. All right. You're right. >> Okay. Put your bags down. >> They just doing too much. You see how they grabbing me up and [ __ ] >> We're just doing our job. >> No, he's grabbing me up, twisting my arm back. Yeah, it's not your job. >> You weren't listening to our instructions. >> Three women, one shoplifting call, and by the end, three completely different legal outcomes. On October 25th, 2024, officers in New Jersey responded to a reported shoplifting at a shopping mall. A store employee reported watching two women conceal sunglasses on a security camera, a specific firsthand account made in real time. That single contemporaneous observation is what turns a hunch into legal grounds for an investigative stop. New Jersey treats this as theft of movable property, and the dollar value of the item sets the degree of the charge. Below roughly $200, it's a disorderly person's offense. Above that, it can become a felony. New Jersey has no stop and identify law, so before an arrest, nobody must hand over ID. Everything said after that point, a name, a date of birth, a story is a choice, not an obligation. One woman tells the officer plainly if she isn't under arrest, she's free to leave. >> Excuse me, ladies. Can I just talk to you real quick? Step over, please. All right. Just to let you know, everything's being recorded. >> Okay. >> Okay. You guys have any identification on you? >> No. What's the problem? >> Okay. So, we have a report of a shoplifting that occurred. >> Oh, no. We spent a lot of money. Receipt. Let me give you a receipt. >> I got it. >> I'm the only person. You can check. >> Before before we go through that, before we go through that, do you have any identification? >> No. >> Okay. >> You can check my ID and you can check. I didn't take anything. >> Shoplifting from where? >> Yeah. >> I'll advise you in a second. For now, right now. >> But I just stopped. I'm leaving. >> Nope, nope, you're not leaving. >> Okay. >> You won't You are not leaving. >> right. You're right. All right, you're right. >> Okay. Put your bags down. Let me get your first name, first name, last name. What is your detained for? First name, last name. >> [music] >> Right now, we're investigating a theft. >> From where? We have the right to know, right? I just gave you >> Your date of birth. Your social? >> I don't know my social. >> Your address? You ever have You ever have a New Jersey DL? >> No. >> Letitia, that's l a k e i s h a. >> Yes. >> Last name, Bell? >> Yes. >> Your date of birth? >> 11 um 12 26 1988. >> What's your age? >> My age is uh 20 I mean, I said 20 36. I'm about to be 36. 35, you could say. >> 12 26 '86, right? >> Yes. >> Why is everyone being advised they're being investigated? 4 Bravo 11, dispatch. We're going to have two females stopped right in front of the liquor store. I'm going to give you a name, DOB, and check it all around, please. >> She's correct. Under Terry versus Ohio, a brief investigative stop only requires reasonable suspicion, not proof of a crime. At that exact moment, this is still just a stop, not an arrest, not yet a search of her belongings. The employee's account changes the calculation specific first hand and tied directly to the concealment itself. That's the point where reasonable suspicion crosses into probable cause, enough to justify a lawful arrest under the law. Once someone is lawfully arrested, officers can search whatever bag or property they're carrying at that moment, no warrant required. She keeps moving instead of standing still where instructed. Officers read that as resistance, not just nerves. >> We have you on camera. >> Take your what? >> Something out of your bag. >> What do you have? >> You like to do things >> Nothing. >> Nothing? >> Nothing. >> You didn't take it? >> No. >> Cuz they said that you >> Well, that's what they said. I'm saying that's what they said. >> Ma'am. >> I'm not going anywhere. I'm right here. >> Then stay over there. Last name going to be Bell. That's Bravo Echo Lima Lima. First name's going to be Lakeisha. That's Lima Alpha Kilo Echo. India Sierra Hotel Alpha. DOB's going to be 12 26 86. Ma'am, you don't have a driver's license anywhere? >> No. >> Yeah, I get I gave you back your uh And your and your work ID. All right? >> All right. Now what? >> Now what? >> Now what? >> 12 Bravo 6 to this address. >> Do what? >> We're doing our our investigation. >> I thought this was an investigation. >> Yeah. >> I'm not going anywhere. I'm right here. Standing right here. >> Ma'am, date of birth and social all the way. >> 546 C, what's the street? >> Marvell A. >> Tango Alpha >> Spell out Marvell. >> Hotel Alpha >> M R A V E L L A G >> Last name Marvell? What is it? >> R >> One word? 6 7 19 79 >> What is it again? >> 10 >> M R A V E L L A G >> 16 80 >> Why are you looking at me like that? Oh, I can't tell you looking at me like that in my face. >> What town is that? >> Elizabeth, New Jersey >> You both? >> I'm not I'm not a >> I know. Stay by the door. >> [music] >> You stay by the window. >> IS THAT WHAT THAT VEST IS? AND I'M NOT UNDER ARREST? >> YOU'RE BEING DETAINED. >> I'M NOT I'm not being detained for nothing. >> It's an investigation for the time. >> I don't care what you say. I'm not being investigated for nothing. If I'm not under arrest, I'm able to leave. Y'all can say I am. >> You saw it already? You saw her take it? >> I'm not taking my bags. Can you let my arm go? >> No, no, no, she's not taking your bags. Stop. She's not taking your bags. Stop. >> I'm not going >> Stop the bag. >> Drop the bag. >> bag. >> Drop the bag. >> Drop the bag. It's not that hard. >> It's Marvell 970. >> What's your purpose here? >> 970 >> I'm being detained, right? >> I'm going to search your bag now. >> And I'm being arrested? >> Absolutely. All right, search the bag. >> Search the bag. >> Is there anything on you that could poke or stick me? >> No. Y'all don't touch this bag. This is my bag. You don't have the right to touch my bag. >> I CAN DO THAT. OH, WOW. LOOK AT THAT. >> Y'ALL GIVE ME MY Excuse me, is this my bag? Y'all got the glasses, give me my bag. >> Just make sure she comes back. >> Give me my bag. That's it. >> No, I need to take this bag off. >> For what? >> For what? You're being arrested. >> then I can Yeah, I'm being arrested, I CAN GIVE MY STUFF TO MY SISTER. >> Not right now. Once we search it, she can get it. >> All right, y'all can search it. Y'all got what y'all looking for, the glasses? All that's paid for. I got receipts for all that. >> Probably have one of all female officers. >> It's my daughter's car though. Let my arm go. Why you holding MY ARM? YOU'RE A MAN. YOU'RE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE DETAINING ME. That's what I'm trying to get you to He don't HAVE TO GRAB MY ARM THOUGH. HE DON'T GRABBING MY ARM. HE DON'T HAVE TO GRAB MY ARM. THAT'S WHY HE GOT TO THAT'S WHY HE GOT TO LET ME GO. DAMN, THAT'S ALL WHAT THE [ __ ] YOU BEING SO AGGRESSIVE FOR? HE'S BEING AGGRESSIVE THOUGH. IT'S NOT ME. >> It's all going with you. >> No, no, give me my Give ME ALL MY MONEY. LOOK, I CAN TAKE MY MONEY AND STUFF OUT OF MY BAG. He grabbing MY ARM THOUGH. YOU GRABBING MY ARM. HE'S GRABBING MY BUT HE'S GRABBING MY THIS IS actually >> Give me my money. >> Stop. Stop resisting. Stop resisting. Stop resisting. Well, we're going to Give us a concession. You need to stop. Let go. Let go. Let go. Let go. LET GO. BACK. STOP. STOP. STOP. >> I'M backing up. >> Come on. Clear it. >> Fine. Y'all grabbing me and slamming me like I'm a man for y'all. Y'all bugging. >> You're not cooperating. >> I am cooperating. Y'ALL KEEP TELLING ME DON'T MOVE. I'm not moving. >> You need to cooperate. >> Can I please get my phone? I am. CAN I GET Can I get Excuse me. >> He's giving you a citation. >> Yeah, now I'm talking. Get off my back. Give me my keys and all my stuff. >> How many you got? >> Take my watch. >> Ma'am, do me Do me a favor. >> What What name? >> Ma'am, right here. >> Okay. Wait until we finish our investigation. >> My name is Latima Smith. That's my name. That's my real name. >> That's the name you gave my boss. You have You gave my my officer your uh >> He has my information already. >> Hey. Go ahead. Looks like you want her yet. You want her yet? >> Yes, he did. >> You want her or you want her We already have somebody in mind, so >> Well, I have nothing to do with that. >> Okay. >> Give him my card, please. That came out of my pocket. DAMN, GIVE ME MY CARD. >> WHY DOES she have her phone? >> You want my I'm showing I'm I'm showing him my name. >> Yeah, but you still don't You still don't get that possession of your phone. >> You want I'm about to show you my This is your item, ma'am? >> Yeah, that is mine. >> And we're going to search your belongings. >> He searched it already, but it didn't It's okay. NOTHING HAPPENED TO ME. >> ALL RIGHT. SO, RIGHT NOW, IS THERE ANYTHING ON YOU THAT WE should be aware of? >> On me, like what? >> Like any any items or anything. >> I just He just searched me. It's It's nothing. This belongs to me. This is mine. >> I got you, ma'am. >> Everything else is mine. >> I just want to make sure, okay? >> Yeah, okay. Please give me my phone back. >> 102 >> Please check my bag. He searched though. He just searched my bag. He just gave He did. >> I I didn't I I didn't search >> All right. >> Ma'am, can you just come with me, please? >> No, all of a sudden he just wants to search All right, give him my stuff. There's nothing in there for you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, you got my phone. Give it to me. >> No, no, no, we're not done. >> Well, close the thing. >> No, ma'am. >> You can just stand. That's my Yeah, no, I didn't have that. That's you. It's not your fault. >> credit cards in there? >> No, my card >> 8530 102 Got in the house. Another fiction, it's not a credit card. That was 3 4 3 0 7 1 0 2 Pennsylvania. >> Can you give them my bag, please? For what? I can't give you my ID. >> For what? That's the only credit card in there? >> Do it when I get >> It's a gift card. >> Yes, it wasn't another one. >> All right, I can't open the cell phone anymore. Where's the card that's 6452? >> Oh. >> Did the shopper have a card? >> I don't have that. That's on my phone. >> The 6452 credit card? >> Yeah. Oh, it's on my Apple Pay. Is it Apple Pay? >> The card is Detective Daniel here. >> Sorry. >> Bravo 11 2 Bravo 5, can you respond at the mall, please? Bravo 22 is en route. The name on the card is Daniel comes back to me as N T A L L date of birth 3 6 1954. All right, reading. The number that I just ran came back to somebody. >> I I Y'all can scan my fingerprint when I get to the police station. I don't condone all that. That's how my mother raised >> Nope, you are under arrest. >> All right, well. >> Now you are no longer a guest. >> So, we got it in So, what's the point of me I'm doing what? I ain't got no problem >> You turn on her camera. >> Yeah, uh actually I didn't get anything back. Yeah. >> Well, she good. You got to take me. What y'all want me to do? Wait a minute. >> Wait a minute. You can take this right. >> Okay, thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Take my stuff, too. >> Just a second. Give us just a second. Just give us a second. You still want to Okay, just give me a heads up. >> Problem by 11. What's your location at the mall? >> We're at the high end entrance. You'll see our cars right by green deck. We're right outside Louis Vuitton. >> This is embarrassing. >> I know, isn't it? You shouldn't have never stole anything. What's your name? >> I'm not telling you my name. >> Okay. >> I'm being detained, so >> You're arrested. And then we'll get you to take your picture here. Yeah, she's not >> I'm about to get on the phone. Is there another charge? >> I don't I don't have to give you my name, though. >> You do. >> I don't. Shut up. Shut up. I said to you it was >> Still waiting? >> Still waiting. She's writing her writing her license now. >> Can you explain to her that compliance is the easiest way to go? >> I'm being a person. I don't have to comply. That's what I got to do. Just leave me alone. Please. I am relaxing. They just doing too much. You see how they grabbing me up and [ __ ] >> doing our job. >> No, he's grabbing me up, twisting my arm back here. That's not your job. >> You weren't listening to our instructions. Every time we told you to stand there, you just kept walking. >> Uh which one do you have? >> This is her phone. >> All right. Can you and Kelly just take her out? Wait for her Yvonne. >> Uh yeah. >> Don't even put her in the back. Just wait for Yvonne to get there so she can search her. >> Thank you. >> All good. >> All right, ma'am. You can take these. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> Have a good day, ma'am. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. >> All right, good. All right. FDNY, clear everything up. Broadway clear. Restaurant is clear. Call you back. >> You got everything? Um They They saw it? All right. They saw her take it? Or did >> They saw She was behind the counter. They saw her move it behind the thing. And then she started putting her pocket >> Put it in her pocket. >> And then she sat down for a a bit. They talked a little bit more. And it reaches left. >> Okay. Thank you. >> The bag comes off her shoulder. She asks the officer not to grab her arm. He doesn't let go. That raises a separate legal question from the arrest itself. Was the physical force actually reasonable here? Under Graham versus Connor, force has to match the threat presented in the moment, not judged after the fact. Shoplifting is a non-violent offense. She wasn't armed. Pacing while agitated isn't the same as active physical resistance. Department policy also generally calls for a female officer on female searches. One hadn't arrived yet when hands first went on her. By the time the search wraps up, it turns up nothing that wasn't already paid for. She's released with a 2-year mall trespass ban attached. A second woman gives her real name without hesitation, cooperates fully with the search, and clears in a matter of minutes. A third woman says something nobody asked her to say, "I should have never stolen it." That kind of spontaneous statement made outside of any formal interrogation is legally admissible. Nobody forced it out of her. A voluntary statement like that doesn't need a Miranda warning. First, it wasn't the product of police questioning. >> You're good, man. Thank you. Actually, let me just uh Let me just get your info real quick just in case you want to. >> Nope. >> Let me just get your info real quick. >> Yeah. >> You good? >> That's it. >> That's That's Bratsch, B R A T S C H. Badge number 6 >> 9 7. >> All right, thank you. >> Yep, you got it, bro. >> Do you want to >> Yeah, this is where the search is at. We'll search outside in a >> We let the cops go? >> Yeah. We're going to have to put her over here. >> No. >> You good? >> I'm going to grab her. >> What? >> being arrested yeah >> Excuse me. What's the next step? I go to the headquarters and then I'm going to jail >> No no you're going to get processed then you're going to be released as long as you cooperate. >> I am cooperating. >> No I'm you got to you got to let me >> tell you this. When y'all stop me I stop correct? >> Yeah. >> When you ask me something I gave you I asked to search me I let y'all search me. When once I went to GO IN MY BAG OR WHEN I START PACING BACK AND FORTH HE GETTING UPSET. Oh stay still I'm nervous I'm going to move. I'm hot at the same time. I DON'T I LIKE Y'ALL GOT ME I SAID I'M STILL IN ALL RIGHT BACK. I GAVE Y'ALL WHAT Y'ALL WANT. ALL RIGHT THAT'S IT. HE SAID this my name no this is my name cuz once he seen the credit cards I don't need a death. You get what I'm saying? He this my name this my card. That's it. >> All right this this officer is going to search you okay? >> No problem. I don't have nothing on me. You can search me it's >> All right 10-4 that's >> No I gave her everything. They checked all that. All my stuff is paid for. It's cool it's cool it's cool. I ain't giving them no hassle I'm letting them check me. I don't got nothing on my baby side sorry. Can she come pick me up yeah right. Will she be able pick me up? Can you go back to the car and figure out everything and get everything down? I think you're running a hot road right here. It's a hot road. The fire hydrant is leaking. Thank you for your service. >> This one? This one. >> Hey, what's your name? What's your first name? Fatima. Just be advised that you are being trespassed against the small court for 2 years. Do you understand? Hey, what's up? >> 185 and 23. >> I need just one. All right. Thank you. All right. >> I think you have you have to take this one here. >> Yeah, he's still he's still by channel. >> Okay. >> Take this. You have your phone? >> I don't want to get >> You can call her when you As soon as you get down here, you can call her. >> I don't want to get the car. They're not >> All right, ma'am. Just so you know, as you can see the backseat of this car is clear. When you get to headquarters and there's something in the back of this car, you'll be charged with it. I'm just telling >> I was actually on my way to go to the store. >> I'm just telling you. >> Bro, check it again to make sure there ain't no >> We will check it. Is my tone like Not very strong. >> Where is Where is everyone else? >> Hey, stay cool, talk. >> Where's my There's nothing to tell the business. >> Where's your Where's your phone? >> He's got >> I got it in my pocket. >> All right, just put it on airplane airplane mode. >> Yeah. >> I need an interaction. >> The Constitution was >> Great time. The lead officer earns a B- solid legal footing on the stop, but slow to actually explain the accusation. The second officer earns a C+. Applying physical control before a female officer arrived is a policy gap, not a crime, but it's still a liability. The woman who asserted her rights correctly earns a B+. The one who cooperated fully earns an A-. The one who confessed unprompted earns a C. Nobody made her talk. She did it entirely on her own. Three takeaways worth remembering: suspicion justifies a stop, not automatically a search. Detention isn't the same as arrest, and silence costs nothing. Subscribe for more body cam breakdowns, the moments people never expect to end up on camera.