Cuz you're under arrest right now. So, go on. Otherwise, I'm asking you to listen listen. Did you do anything like that? >> No. Am I going to jail? >> Probably so. >> For what? >> That's what happens when you steal. You go to jail. >> On the 9th of November, 2024, officers responded to a report of credit card fraud at a luxury retail mall. A victim's stolen card had been used at Nordstrom and then attempted again at Louis Vuitton for over $3,000. Officers were already on scene when the suspect returned. >> All right, perfect perfect. And you swear everything you told me is true? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All righty. And um what time did you last use it? Do you remember? >> Last time I used this credit card was last night at the Latin Market, but >> Okay, but did you have it here or do you think you >> I did have it here. >> You did have it here, but somehow you >> So, I lost it either in the parking lot cuz when I got out of my car, my wallet was stolen and everything fell. I don't remember. >> All right, perfect. Uh yeah, this is giving me one second. Let me uh figure out, okay? >> How do we know for sure that that was her that made it? >> So, so they only had one declined credit card and it was her. >> Got you. I guess one of the salespersons told you >> Correct. Correct. >> Okay. >> The store manager called me that this was the only declined credit card. >> Can you just get the store manager for I don't want to walk in and spook her. All right. >> All right, well, I don't know if he's in the store. Call him real quick and call to him real quick and then we'll I'll try to make contact with him. >> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. >> Store manager? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, tell me your part of what how did you get involved in this? >> Yes, so um the client that you just spoke with uh um >> Yep. Yep. >> uh uh report She came into the store and said, "I just had a charge for this amount, $3,070, uh that I declined. Like I got a fraud alert on my on my thing and I declined it and it happened here at Louis Vuitton. So, someone has stolen my card and then they came to the store." >> Okay. >> At like literally moments before she walked in, we had just declined the transaction for that exact amount. >> Were you part of that transaction? >> not. >> You were not. Okay, then >> That client of ours there was She's in there. And so then we put two and two together and realized that this was the same person. Additionally, the lady you just spoke with her The client gives a name when they come into the store, they check in. The client that stole her card gave us the name >> Okay. >> Right? When the card declined, she shared, "Oh, I'm in a hurry. Never mind, I'll just come back later." And she quickly disappeared. And then they just stood right over there, her and another guy that was not with her in the store. So he came over here and joined her here. Then after some time, she came back in and now she's in the store re-attempting her purchase. >> Got you. Do you see the young lady? Can you point her out to me? >> Yes, absolutely. She's the wearing the black dress with the tattoo on her left >> Got you. So obviously her assistant. Got you, got you. What are they So what are they trying to do now? Do you even know? >> They said that they wanted to look at a bag. We pulled a bag out of our window. We've got one of our managers helping her. Who knows what the situation is. >> Got you, got you. >> And then when we get to the point of sale, but normally if a client is just tapping their card and we don't take possession of their card, we actually don't have to check identification anymore. But in this situation, Eva is going to make sure that when they go to pay with a card, that we ask for ID. >> Got you. >> Make sure that we check it. Right? So hopefully that will stop whatever kind of foolishness they're doing. >> Yep. So yeah, I mean, it's up to you guys. You guys can continue on with the whatever sale y'all are doing or um or I could just intervene. It's always up to you. If you guys want to want to just go on or whatever or I can do whatever. >> continue on peacefully in the store and not cause a scene. Get to point of sale. Look, if to keep pulls out a card and he matches see his ID and it goes through >> Yeah, for that transaction then you're perfect. >> I can't hear anything, right? If what happens is I think what's going to happen is when we go to ask for ID they're going to be like, "Oh, uh" >> The initial contact constitutes a consensual encounter. Under Florida versus Bostick 1991 no Fourth Amendment seizure yet. That changed the moment the officer announced she was not free to leave. Under Terry versus Ohio 1968 detention requires articulable reasonable suspicion. Officers had four independent pillars. A victim report a store manager identification a matching transaction record and the suspect's own evolving admissions. This exceeds reasonable suspicion. It satisfies probable cause. >> It's pretty simple. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, man, I had a run and get it. It's been a day. >> Holidays are coming up. >> That's right. >> There you go. >> No, never. >> Not once. >> Yeah, it's it's never happened to me. It's never happened to me. >> Usually the criminal's long gone by the time we get there. >> That's what I'm worried about. >> I'm just worried about >> Yeah, I know. >> Yes. >> They probably have like a card reader where like you can scan it, man. >> What's up, Red Man? What's up? What's up? Yeah, what's up, man? What's your uh phone number here or your >> you >> Perfect, perfect. And you swear everything you told me is true? >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Everything. That's That's all right there. >> Sounds good. It looks like they're coming out, so I don't know if they uh >> I don't know what receipt they got. It looks like their transaction went through, so there's no issue, okay? >> Perfect, perfect. >> thanks. Give me a call. >> Yep. >> Excuse me. You mind if I talk to you guys for a second? >> Sure. >> You mind if I talk to you guys? >> Yeah. >> So, here, let's get out of the way here. So, earlier were you here and made a purchase on a credit card, on American or tried to make a purchase? >> No. >> No? You weren't just here a little while ago and tried to make one and it got declined? >> No. >> So, not you? Are you sure? Where are you at? What store are you at? >> I just got here not too long ago. Me and my man got here. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. So, just a little while ago, you weren't in just in there trying to make a purchase for $3,000, it got declined, you walked out, and then he joined you while you were standing over here? >> Like he's been right next to >> Yeah, but I've known him for a little while. Wait. Wait. Wait. >> What are you trying to get to? >> Okay. So, they just had a purchase here, okay? >> That was me. >> Wow. >> Not Not just a This is >> Why are you getting a little defensive? I'm sorry. >> Well, I get it. That's Well, I'm trying to explain it to you, but you're in just interrupted. I was I was just >> You're not talking to such a way. >> Right. You just asked me for a What was I getting to? And I was trying to explain the the situation, and then you interrupted me. >> All right. I'll wait. >> Right. Right. So, that's what I was trying to get to, okay? So, just a little while ago, there was a purchase that was made here at Louis Vuitton, okay? It was used with a card and then it got declined, okay? And so, what they just told me was it was you that made the purchase and then you exited the store, stood over here. >> at a bag. >> Yeah, looking at a bag. >> I came back. I came back with my man. >> Right. Right. Right. >> He didn't >> Right. Right. Right. So, that's what I'm was getting to, right? You just said a little while ago you It was you just >> I was here looking at a bag. I was walking around >> And did you use a American Express or Airlines card, a Vantage card? >> No. >> No, you did not? >> No, I didn't. >> Okay. Do you have your ID with you? >> What What is this for? I'm confused. >> Because the the card that was used in that transaction was stolen. >> Oh, no. I don't have a I don't have my ID. I literally just came here to meet him. >> Okay. So, were you here before again to back to that other question? Were you here with when he was not here? >> Yeah, I was in here walking around. I looked at a bag, and that was it, and then I left, and I met him. >> So, during that transaction there, like I was saying, that bag you tried to purchase. >> No. >> You did not try to purchase it, and you did never hand it them. So, if the cameras the cameras there and the transaction were not is not true. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I want you to please be completely honest with me, cuz it's not a big deal. >> No, I tried to use my card, but I did not get anything back. >> of the story here, right? You see what I'm saying? >> Each time the suspect changed her story, she generated a prior inconsistent statement admissible at trial under evidence law. This pattern constitutes consciousness of guilt, not merely poor memory. Every point-of-sale event, successful or declined, generates an immutable digital record card number, timestamp amount, combined with surveillance and the manager's live ID, this satisfies the totality of circumstances standard in Illinois versus Gates, 1983. >> Okay. Got you. And then you told me that you did not make a transaction, and now you Hold on. Hold on. Let me finish. Then you told me that you did not make a transaction at all, but then now you just told me that you just used your card. All right? So, we're getting So, let's get back to the real story, okay? >> on now. >> I just told you the card that you tried to make a transaction, cuz I want I'm just going to be completely honest with you, okay? >> my card. >> No. The card that you tried to make a purchase with. >> have my card, so >> Okay. Do you have your ID with you? >> No, I don't. >> All right. That's fine. So, you have nothing with your name on it your purse? >> I have my card, yes. >> Okay, can you take it out for me? You have any other cards inside of there? So, when they look back and try to see that the purchase that you tried to make earlier, will it say this card on it? >> It should. It didn't go through, so >> So, will it Well, it's going to it registers, right? So, it everything that it that you do, all the transactions are obviously kept in the computer system. I'm sorry if I'm boring you there. >> No, I'm just I don't understand >> is this going only be the card? I'm going to ask you one time, >> Yesterday. >> okay? And honestly, I'm honestly honestly would probably get you a long ways, all right? Because we've already got a little bit tripped up in the truth. >> I'm telling you what it is. I still don't understand what is happening right now. >> So, there like I told you before, all right? I want you to be >> I said >> Cuz we are So, there's about 400 cameras throughout this this mall, >> All right. >> okay? In Nordstrom, there's cameras. Okay? >> Okay. >> All right, do you know what happened in Nordstrom? >> No, I don't. >> Okay. So, there's cameras all throughout Louis Vuitton as well, okay? >> Okay. >> All right? And when you present a card, >> Right. >> when you try to make a transaction, it is logged. >> It's logged what? >> Logged. Logged. L O G G E D. >> yes. >> Okay? So, did when you tried to make that purchase for that bag So, again, so I'll explain the story. Someone's card was stolen, okay? You get a uh the person who the card belongs to gets notification from Nordstrom, all right? That a purchase was made for $1,000, a little over $1,000, okay? And even more All right, so Louis Vuitton gets uh the person she gets a note another notification that someone is using her card at Louis Vuitton for about $3,000 for a bag, okay? Like I said, there's cameras all over this mall. Every inch of this mall is is is monitored by the camera surveillance system, okay? Louis Vuitton, the person who the they card belongs to, she gets to Louis Vuitton just a little while ago, alerts them of what's going on. Okay? Obviously, they're able to backtrack and log see every transaction and purchase that is made. Okay? So, young lady here there is who they identify there's only one declined transaction today for that exact amount. And it matches the card number that it was used for that transaction matches the victim's stolen credit card. Okay? And unfortunately, they identified you as being the person who used that card during that transaction. And during that transaction, she said they they're saying that she said that told them that her name was who is the card owner. You get what I'm saying? So, and after she Hold on one second. Let me let me just finish this one second. So, after she le you know, makes the the transaction, she comes out of the store, stands over here, and then that's when you come and join her. So, that was that was earlier, and then you guys go back inside. >> The companion's brief detention required independent justification under Terry. His association and re-entry may provide a basis, but the officer did not articulate it on camera. He was correctly released once non-involvement was confirmed. Pre-arrest questioning was lawfully conducted in a non-custodial setting under Berkemer versus McCarty, 1984, Miranda not yet required. The advisement was appropriately given before post-arrest interrogation, protecting the admissibility of any subsequent statements. >> And then she returns with you. >> When did she When was she supposed to leave? >> That that The exact time I don't >> I don't know the exact >> But again, that that that that kind of Well, that Well, Well, that kind of Well, how did they know this yet? >> don't know whether or not there's a conflict. >> Well, there is no conflict because it kind of it matches exactly what what they were saying. She was in there Hold on. She was in there by herself looking at a bag, which is exactly what she says. Right? She says and then she kind of changes the story. She didn't She First she said she didn't make a transaction. Then she said she did make a try to make a transaction, but it was declined. Right? Then she leaves out and you guys come back again with you, which is exactly what they said. >> Okay, so you just said you guys come back. You want to correct that? >> Well, you I should say she comes back with you. So, you weren't You weren't a part of the the original thing at all whatsoever. So, you you weren't a part of it whatsoever. But, it gets to my You know, and the stories match up. She was in there by herself tried to make a transaction using the victim from stolen card. And then, you come with her when she leaves out to this year Whatever happens, you guys meet up, whatever. Y'all go back inside or you go inside with her at that time. So, you had no involvement in it whatsoever. All right? So, we have We'll get that We'll get that. >> and I'm afraid to speak because you accused me of interrupting you. So, let me know when you're ready. >> Go ahead. Whenever you're ready to talk. >> Okay. So, I met her someplace else and it took us about 20 minutes to get in there. >> Right? >> Right? You keep saying that I was either we or us and so that's not really what down. So, what you're saying is she went in there as Laura and she used somebody else's card and she used the downstairs at Nordstrom's. >> Downstairs or upstairs? Whichever one. >> Okay, she used this that card also as Laura over at Nordstrom's? >> That I That That I'm not too worried about. I'm right now we're worried about the Louis Vuitton. So, it's two different incidents here. Two different incidents. >> Okay, so then I go in there and she's been trying to hit on me to get a bag for a little while. So, then she's giving me this [ __ ] that I got to go and give her a bag. And the reason why I said [ __ ] is because I'm totally against buying her a bag. So, she talks me into it and I do it. So, now that's just because of my own principles that I never said that I would buy her a bag or whatever. >> Right, right, right. >> So, I go and I buy the bag. It has nothing to do with the previous stop. And I can't really tell >> Are you saying that she was alone and she was popping in and doing all these things? >> So, yeah, yeah. So, once again, yes. So, earlier today she was by herself again. She was by herself. >> Earlier. >> She was in here like 10 minutes before I came in. >> So, I I wanted to do that. >> So, earlier, earlier today, what time? Don't know. Not an issue, right? She was in it Well, she did by her What is the big issue? Like, what are you trying to dispute? Because by her by her own Hold on. By her own by her own admission, she said she was in there by her Okay. Actually, you don't even need to be here, actually. So, you can go ahead and leave. You don't need I mean, there's no point in me even talking to you cuz you were not a part of this whatsoever. Just like you you wanted me to clarify it with a week. So, you are you are not involved in this whatsoever. My issue is with her. All right? >> Okay, but the time >> So, right now you're being detained, all right? For an investigation, okay? That's what's happening right now. So, right now you're not free to leave at whatsoever, okay? All right? Cuz I like I said, I'm conducting an investigation. Into the theft. So, that's what's going to happen right now, okay? So, what I just need you to do, just stay right there. Don't move. If you want to, you can you can move against the wall there or whatever to get out of the weather, okay? Hey, is uh are they able to have the cashier that I I don't want to leave her by Just the the person who was did the transaction and did the transaction, just come out right quick and talk to me. >> All righty, ma'am. We're going to go out to my police car, okay? Cuz you're under arrest right now. So, go on and otherwise I'm asking you to listen listen listen. >> Okay. I know. >> So, now what? What's going to happen? Can you tell me? >> What do you think is going to happen? >> I don't know. I just wanted to know. I've never been in this situation. >> Well, uh it's a time for a first, huh? >> Well, I just want to know where is the proof. I didn't do anything. Can you tell me, please? Is it I have a question. >> I think I'm not being mean. I think I've been actually very nice to you, probably too nice to you. >> I appreciate that, but I think you grabbed my arm pretty hard. >> I'm sorry. Come on. >> I'm going in the car? >> Uh yeah. >> Why? >> Can you face the camera this way? Do you have anything on you? Any weapons, guns, knives, anything like that? >> No. Am I going to jail? >> Probably so. >> For what? >> That's what happens when you steal, you go to jail. >> I didn't though. >> Okay. If you still want to stick with that story, okay. You still want to stick with that story. I thought you didn't have your ID. That's another lie that you told me. >> I really didn't think I had it. Can I switch my bags? >> You got it. You just full of them, huh? >> No, seriously. I don't know. I have so many bags. >> I don't think you understand the severity of what's going on right now. >> I mean, I don't I don't know what's going on. >> Okay. >> Can you tell me what's going on? >> Right now, you're being detained for felony investigation, which means it's uh prison time, all right? Felony a felony. Felony. >> But I didn't use her card to purchase anything. So, how does this work? Am I going to jail? >> Most likely, yeah. >> What is most What is that the definition of? >> Uh so, I'm going to read you your rights in just a moment here and going to ask you more questions just like I told you before. Um honestly goes a a big way. All right. So like I was saying, right? So obviously first I come to you, right? Very nicely, right? Ask you just questions of what happened and stuff like that. First you told me that you weren't in Louis Vuitton earlier and then you told me, "Okay, maybe you were there." And then you told me, um what did you tell me that you didn't make a purchase there? Then you finally came and said that you did make a purchase and then it changed to you, "Okay, you used your card." And all that stuff, right? So let me tell you this, I've been doing this for a long time, right? Over almost 10 years, right? So it's not my first rodeo. It's not the biggest crime of the century, right? It's still a felony crime, right? Obviously I'm not there just because I just want to come over here, right? I obviously know what happens, right? Like I told you there's cameras everywhere. Everything is locked, so I'm we're not I'm not dumb or slow, right? I'm pretty good at what I do, right? So I've already told you what you did cuz I saw it with my own eyes on camera, right? So I'm not naive. So please don't try to challenge my intelligence, right? Cuz I know what happened, right? I don't know why you would even lie about that. So we'll start over, okay? We'll start over. We'll start over. Just We're going to forget the past. We're going to >> Two separate charges apply here. The completed Nordstrom purchase over $1,000 constitutes felony grand theft. The Louis Vuitton attempt, though declined, generates a separate charge, unlawful use of a stolen financial instrument. Attempt alone satisfies the elements of that offense. The I found it defense does not hold. Using a found financial instrument knowingly satisfies criminal intent for both fraud and theft. Presenting the card holder's name at check-in adds exposure under identity fraud statutes, rebutting any innocent mistake claim. The lead officer receives a B+. Investigative sequencing was methodical and legally sound. One deduction, the companion's detention lacked on-camera articulation of independent reasonable suspicion, a gap that could be challenged in court. The suspect receives a D. Multiple locations, a documented pattern of deception and digital evidence combined to leave minimal viable defense theory. The male companion receives a B. Cooperative, consistent, and not implicated. Though proximity to criminal conduct carries real, if temporary, legal consequences. Three takeaways. First, a declined card still generates a permanent log. Second, each inconsistent statement is evidence silence under Miranda. Is safer. Third, "I found it." is not a defense under any fraud or theft statute. Let us know if there is an interaction or legal topic you would like us to discuss in the comments below. Thank you for watching. >> She's going to go to jail. Yeah, especially that's Mhm. >> Is that a felony crime? >> It's a felony crime, so yeah, it is uh >> Is it Does it go by the amount that they tried to >> Yeah, so well, there's a couple things. So, one is a felony theft, right? Cuz $1,000 of theft that she was actually able to deprive you with, that is a you know, a felony crime. Um so, over $728 or whatever it is now, that is a felony. And obviously $1,000 is over that. So, that And then there's another charge with unlawful use of a stolen credit card, right? But yeah, she is uh, you know, the felony crimes though. She is, uh, you know, going through all that, so. All right. >> Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, guys. >> No problem. >> All right. Have a good day. >> So, yeah, she had she admitted, uh, the call. You got to >> Is there any way you could take this off me? >> No. >> Or loosen it a little bit, maybe? >> No. No. No. No. No. >> Okay. How do I do this? >> You going to have to swing your arms out or whatever. >> I'm going to call him and my mom after, okay? >> Say it again? >> Can I call him and my mom after? >> Sure. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Babe, I'm sorry. You're on speaker right now. I'm really sorry for all of this. I I you know, this is going to happen, or else I would never do this. >> I'm not your call. >> What? >> I'm not your one phone call. >> What do you mean? >> I said it clearly. >> What do you mean, baby? You can't hear me, honey? >> No. >> Are you serious? >> Yeah, I'm going home. >> Well, what about everything? >> I don't know. I can't help you, man. Look, I mean, you're you're running around stealing [ __ ] with credit cards. >> I didn't mean to. I just found it and I It was decision. >> Yep, it was. >> They're taking me to jail. >> I don't know how I can help you. >> You can't help me bail me out tomorrow? >> No. >> Seriously? >> Yeah. Call your dad. >> They can't help me, babe. >> You have to. It's a family issue. >> But, they don't have it, dad. All right. Don't freak out, okay? But, I got arrested. They're taking me to jail. >> What? >> It's all right. >> Stealing with a card. I'm going to I'm going to need you to bail me out tomorrow. I'll give you the money, but I won't know anything until tomorrow, I guess. >> Can you just text it to me real quick? >> Mom, I can't. I can't text like I'm in handcuffs right now. This is my only phone. >> Oh, that's fine. >> All right. Bye. >> Bye. >> All right, put your phone in Cool.