(fizzing pulse of electricity) (button click) (low intense music) - [Call Log] Sunday, August 7th, 2016, 00:50:35. (connection chimes) - [Homeowner] No. I'm gonna kill him. - [Dispatcher] 911, what's the address of your emergency? - [Homeowner] It's, uh, Singleleaf Lane. We've got a bunch of hoodlums out here racing, um... I am locked and loaded. I'm going outside to secure my neighborhood. You need to send PD as quickly as possible. - [Dispatcher] I'm sorry, you're going out to do what to the neighborhood, sir? - [Homeowner] I'm gonna secure my neighborhood. I'm on neighborhood watch. I'm gonna have the neighbors with me. There's hoodlums out here racing up and down the street. It's one o'clock in the morning, uh, there's some vandalism. They have firearms, and we're gonna secure our neighborhood. If I were you I'd send PD. (dramatic music) (gentle acoustic music) - [Narrator] Raleigh, North Carolina, has come a long way since its days as a Confederate headquarters during the American Civil War. It has become a modern hub of culture, diversity, education and technology. As the state capital and the second most populous city in North Carolina, Raleigh is celebrated for its lush oak trees, earning it the nickname "City of Oaks". It ranks highly as one of the best places to live in the U.S., Famed for its delicious barbecue, Southern and soul food and abundant green trails for outdoor enthusiasts. Raleigh is historically significant, housing Shaw University, the first historically black college in the South, and a cradle for civil rights activists like Ella Baker. The city also boasts the Raleigh Beer Garden, recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records for offering the world's largest selection of beers on tap. Educational accolades are also prominent, with Raleigh being named the second most educated city in America by Forbes and ranked fourth by Bloomberg for its concentration of college educated residents. Neighborhoods like Neuse Crossing with its two story, tree-shaded homes, reflect the city's blend of Southern traditions and forward thinking values. Yet within this very neighborhood, a heartbreaking incident occurred on August 7th, 2016, casting a shadow over the community's otherwise vibrant and welcoming spirit. More than seven years have passed since then, but the case still awaits full legal resolution due to a series of appeals. Let's dive in. (projector whirs) (soft compelling music) With his big, warm smile, 20 year old Kouren Thomas, known affectionately by those closest to him as Koury, always enjoyed making others laugh, and when he wasn't telling jokes, he would ensure they were safe. In fact, family members often referred to him as "Mr. Safety 101" because, they said, he had a thing for making sure people wore their seatbelts. In 2001, Koury's mother relocated to Raleigh from New York to keep her son safe. After high school, he balanced work at McDonald's and Waffle House while embodying the role of a supportive boyfriend, eagerly planning to assist his girlfriend with her college dorm move in late August. On the evening of August 6th, 2016, Koury and two friends found out about a house party on Singleleaf Lane in Neuse crossing, a quiet neighborhood in Raleigh with no sidewalks. Only one of the three knew the person hosting the party. The friends arrived at the house around half past midnight. Demonstrating respect for the host and understanding social boundaries, Koury and a friend decided to wait outside while the third friend asked for permission to come in. Around the same time, about 20 people showed up at the house party uninvited and were asked to leave. They agreed to go and did so without any problems. As the large group gathered near a home at the end of the road where they had parked their cars, they stood on the curb discussing where to go next. According to multiple state witnesses, no one was particularly loud or disruptive. However, the owner of the home close to where the group parked their cars, saw things differently. He said he became disturbed by the large group and called 911 to report a complaint. - [Call Log] Sunday, August 7th, 2016 (call chimes) - [Homeowner] No. I'm gonna kill him. - [Dispatcher] 911, what's the address of your emergency? - [Homeowner] It's, uh, Singleleaf Lane. We've got a bunch of hoodlums out here racing, uh... I am locked and loaded. I'm going outside to secure my neighborhood. You need to send P.D. as quickly as possible. - [Dispatcher] I'm sorry, you're going out to do what to the neighborhood, sir? - [Homeowner] I'm gonna secure my neighborhood. I'm on neighborhood watch. I'm gonna have the neighbors with me. There's hoodlums out here racing up and down the street. It's one o'clock in the morning. Uh, there's some vandalism, they have firearms, and we're gonna secure our neighborhood. If I were you I'd send PD as quickly as possible. - [Dispatcher] Okay sir, can you tell me where Singleleaf runs off of? - [Narrator] While the homeowner was on the line with 911, Koury and his friends decided the party didn't live up to the hype and chose to leave. It was then that Koury noticed what appeared to be police lights. Fearing the consequences because he was carrying a marijuana grinder, he started running towards his ride, which his friends had parked near the home of the 911 caller. But before he could reach the car, a shotgun blast pierced the air and struck Koury, dropping him to the ground. Moments later, the homeowner who had made the earlier call placed a second call to 911. - [Dispatcher] 911, what's the location of your emergency? - [Homeowner 2] Singleleaf Lane. - [Dispatcher] Just repeat that to make sure I'm sending help to the right place. - [Homeowner 2] I'm sorry, what? - [Dispatcher] Ma'am... - [Homeowner 2] Some, somebody's dyin'. - [Dispatcher] Okay, repeat the address to make sure I'm sending help to the right place - [Homeowner 2] Singleleaf Lane. - [Dispatcher] And what is your name? What is the phone number you're calling me from? Tell me exactly what happened... - [Homeowner 2] I don't know, I'm upstairs with our children Uh, hold on... - [Homeowner] Hello, yes? - [Dispatcher] Yeah, sir. Can you tell me exactly what happened? - [Homeowner] We have a lot of people outside our house, yelling and shouting profanities. Uh, I yelled at them, please, uh, leave the premises. They were showing firearms... so I fired a warning shot and uh... we got somebody that got hit. - [Dispatcher] Okay, so somebody was shot? - [Homeowner] Uh, well... I don't know if they're shot or not ma'am. I fired my warning shot like I'm supposed to by law. They do have firearms and I'm trying to protect myself and my family. - [Dispatcher] Sir, did they just show up at your house? - [Homeowner] Just send PD! - [Dispatcher] I'm gonna send them over there, sir, but I need to know what's going on. - [Homeowner] There's friggin' Black males outside my friggin' house with firearms! Please send PD. Thank you! - [Dispatcher] Okay. Sir, is anyone shot? (line buzzes) - [Narrator] EMS arrived and transported Koury to the hospital where he died from his injuries. Wake County Sheriff's Deputy Barry Carroll was one of the first officers to arrive at the scene. After noticing shards of glass in the driveway and a broken garage window, he approached the house near where Koury had fallen. He asked the homeowner if he had shot someone and the homeowner said "yes." The shooter was identified as then 39-year-old Chad Copley. Deputy Carroll learned there was no confrontation between Copley and Koury. According to police records, Copley fired his shotgun from inside the garage, shooting through a window some 20 to 50 feet away from Koury. No firearm was found on or near Koury, and no one other than Copley corroborated the presence of handguns. Raised in a small town in West Virginia, Copley moved to North Carolina after finishing high school. There, he worked various jobs as a contractor. He resided on Singleleaf Lane with his wife and their children, including two young daughters, and also has a son from a previous marriage. Copley had no prior felony record. He was questioned by detectives and subsequently arrested on charges of first degree murder. Facing the possibility of the death penalty if convicted, he was later allowed bond set at $1 million. Four days after the shooting, the Thomas family held a press conference. - [Reporter] Can you explain why you think there's similarities between the Trayvon Martin case and this case? - Well, the reason I referred to him, the reason I refer to him as George Zimmerman 2.0 is because there are similarities. George Zimmerman, of course, Mr. Neighborhood Watch, Mr. "I'm going to play police," Mr. "I'm going to pass judgment on someone that I see that I know nothing about based on what he's wearing and what he looks like and what I think he may be up to." And then you have Mr. Copley, aka Mr. George Zimmerman, 2.0, who does the same thing. "I'm neighborhood watch. "There are hoodlums," as he sees them, "outside. "I'm going to investigate it myself "and I'm gonna play police." So there are some similarities. But one of the biggest differences here than what we saw in the Trayvon Martin case is the fact that there, there was no altercation. It was never up close and personal. Mr. Copley was never at harm for anything, not saying George Zimmerman was, but it never even got that far because Mr. Copley never left his house. What Mr. Copley did is not protect his neighborhood, not protect his home. He took the life of an innocent man of a 20 year old, of a son, of a brother, of a boyfriend, of a friend. So with that said, we'll now hear a few words from Kouren Rodney's mother, Miss Simone. (camera shutters snapping) (Simone sobbing) What can I say? What can I say? Koury was a good boy. He wasn't there no more than half an hour. They was on their way home. He didn't bother nobody. He stayed between here and his friend's house. He was a good boy. There's no words can explain... I would never want a parent to have to go through what I'm going through now. - [Narrator] Koury's mother added that the family was trying to raise money for burial expenses. In response to this need, the McDonald's franchise where Koury worked organized a fundraising benefit to support the family during this challenging time. - [News Anchor] Tonight, the McDonald's where Thomas worked is holding a benefit in celebration of his life. CBS North Carolina's AJ Janavel is there. AJ. - Hey Sharon. All of the proceeds from or rather all the sales from tonight will go towards the Thomas family. Half of the money that they bring in will go towards the family and any donations will also go towards the family. The people that work here said that they wanted to show support for Thomas, his family. Now, Thomas specifically worked at this McDonald's for five months, but organizers tonight say that he worked at other McDonald's throughout the area for a little bit longer. And they say that both coworkers from this McDonald's on Falls and Neuse Road, as well as the other location, will be here tonight for Thomas. - [Narrator] The trial of North Carolina versus Chad Cameron Copley kicked off on February 12th, 2018, almost two years after the shooting, Copley's defense team argued that he acted out of fear for his and his family's safety and therefore was immune to prosecution under the state's "Castle Doctrine." On the other hand, the prosecution contended that it was a clear cut case of premeditated murder. The crucial question before the court was whether the jury would believe Copley's use of deadly force was reasonably necessary. - [Prosecutor] Good morning. - [All] Good morning. - Yesterday, and the day before, and the day before, we all got a chance to talk to each other. Unfortunately, now, you all just have to listen to us talk. And so it's a little different. But as the judge said, what we're about to tell you is not evidence. It's what we believe the evidence will be in the case. And so I'd like to take a minute to talk to you about that. And as you've probably surmised from all the discussions that we've had, this is an important case. It's important for everybody, as we all talked about, it's important for the state, it's certainly important for the defense and it's important for the citizens of Wake County in North Carolina. And what I believe the facts in this case will show and what they will be is that on August 6th, 2016, Koury Thomas, who was a young male, went to a party with a couple of friends. While he was there there was a police car up the road. They had just got to the party a short time before that. While he's standing in the yard at the party talking to his friend, they see a police car, see the lights. They think, uh-oh, the police are going to come break up the party. Time for us to get out of here, especially Koury. 'Cause Koury had in his pocket a little bit of marijuana and a little grinder, maybe a pipe. He knew he shouldn't have it. That's why he took off. Unfortunately, sometimes young people make bad decisions in life and maybe that's what he did that day by having that marijuana. But unfortunately for Koury, that decision cost him his life, because at the same time that Koury Thomas was running unarmed down Singleleaf Lane here in Raleigh, Chad Copley, the defendant, that man, was in his garage with a loaded shotgun. Koury's running down the road as his friend calls out to him to stop because they realize now the cops aren't coming to break up the party. They're just on a routine traffic stop up the road. As Koury comes to a shuffled stop just in front of the defendant's house, you'll hear that he may take one or two steps inside the curb line to get out of the road in a neighborhood where there are no sidewalks, party going on, cars lining the road. And just at that moment, as Koury is taking those last steps that he'll ever take, the defendant is pulling the trigger of a shotgun. The shotgun that he is pulling the trigger of is in his hand while he's standing in a closed garage inside of his home, some 50 or so feet away from the curb line of his house. That shotgun blast breaks the window of Chad Copley's garage because the door's closed. He's inside of it. Lights are off in the garage. That shotgun blast breaks the window, breaks Koury's skin and his arm and enters just above his elbow in his right side as he's running, exits the inside of his arm, enters his side, just below his ribs, causes great damage to his vital organs, does not exit the other side of his body. They would later find that projectile that the defendant shot with that shotgun still inside Koury's body when he's taken to the medical examiner. Now, what Koury couldn't know is that moments before all of this had happened, Chad Copley is on the phone with the police. Well, with 911 talking to a dispatch operator. And I believe you're going to hear that tape. And I believe what you're going to hear in that tape is Chad Copley's voice and what he's going to be saying to the 911 operators is that there are people in his street. He doesn't call them people, though. He calls them "hoodlums." There are "hoodlums in the street." They're being loud, they're racing cars up and down the road. Some of them may have firearms. Chad Copley tells the 911 operator, "I'm locked, I'm loaded. "I'm going out to secure my neighborhood. "I'm on the neighborhood watch "and I'll have the neighbors with me," which is an interesting statement, because what the other neighbors, who I believe you'll hear from, will tell you is there isn't a neighborhood watch. The other thing that you'll find out is that 911 calls record a little bit before they actually answer. So before you know someone's picked up the phone, there's already a recording of what you're saying, at least for a short period of time. I don't know if the evidence will show that Chad knew that. But what I believe the evidence will show you is that it recorded Chad on the phone. And what did it record Chad saying? What it records Chad saying is, "I'm gonna kill him." - [Judge] Thank you, sir. Jury's with the defense. - [Defense] Good morning. - [All] Good morning. - You're gonna hear about this party. I think it was called the blackout. It was an epic conclusion to the summer or something of that nature. You know, some young guys, 18, 19, 20-year-olds getting together to have a party. Nothing wrong with that. We've all done it. No problems there. You're going to hear from different people that were at that party. I think you probably hear from a couple of guys that were there. There's different accounts of how many folks were there, but I think most people would sort of say there was 10 to 20 people there. And as they're there, they're hanging out, drinking, smoking weed. This other group of people come, a rougher, tougher group of people. So rough, so tough that some of the folks in the party got nervous, got nervous that they may have firearms, this group of people. And in fact, one of the original partygoers estimated it to be 40 people come into that house. And so because of this rough, this tough new group of uninvited people, they asked them to leave. And when they leave, they get out in the streets and there's a commotion and you're gonna hear that two of them almost came to blows fighting in the street and a crowd starts to surround them, encouraging the fight. Chad Copley will tell you what he saw. Chad Copley will tell you why he called 911. Chad Copley will tell you why he took his daughters, his wife, and put them in an upstairs bedroom and why he went to a garage with a shotgun. Chad Copley will tell you that when this crowd was forming, he complained about the noise, yelled out a window, and then a confrontation starts. He will tell you that at least two of them brandished firearms. He will tell you that one of them showed it. He had a shirt on, or shorts, opened up his shirt, "Here's my firearm." You'll hear another one from Chad Copley that he pulled it out and came on to his yard. You will hear Chad Copley testify that among all of this chaos, the scene, with people in his yard, he'll tell you there were people in the backyard, people brandishing firearms. He pulled the trigger on the shotgun that ultimately killed Mr. Thomas. - [Narrator] Among the witnesses called to the stand were the two friends who were with Koury at the time he was shot. David Walker and Chris Malone, along with Jace Williams, the host of the house party. - I got with Koury around, I want to say like 10:30 after I dropped my girlfriend off. But the day, August 6th, I wasn't with him the whole day. I only got with him that night. - [Prosecutor] Okay. When you got with him that night, what'd you do? - Just went over his house. He changed his clothes. We were just planning on going to this like slow party, and we sat there, he was talking me, him and Chris, making sure everybody was looking nice. You know. - Okay. Were you all drinking? - No. - Y'all smoking? - We were smoking. - [Prosecutor] When you say smoking, what were you all smoking. - We smoked a blunt. Weed. - A single... - One blunt, yeah. - So marijuana. - Yeah. - [Prosecutor] When you said y'all getting dressed, did y'all have a discussion amongst yourselves about getting dressed to go to this party? - Yeah. - What were y'all talking about? - Just normal like, guy things, you know, like he was making sure, we was basically making sure we didn't look crazy, you know, like, you got to match, you know, look nice. We was telling him to change his shirt because he was trying to wear red and blue. And we were like, how are you going to wear a red hat with a blue shirt? Don't kind of match, you know. So just little things like that. - Did he change? - Yeah. - What did he put on? - A red shirt. - You told him to do that? - Yeah. Me and Chris both 'cause he had a red NC State hat and it didn't match with the blue Levi's shirt he had on, it was like, "Come on, you got to match," you know? - [Prosecutor] So you didn't think he looked good? - No, not wearing... no. - All right. And you were going with him, so you thought if he didn't look good, it might affect... - More like a friend thing. Like, it wouldn't have affected us, but it was more like, "Come on, man. Like, you know, make yourself look good." It's going to be new people here. We don't go out like that. - Did he have weed on him? - If there was weed in the grinder, then, yes. But I don't recall that. - Were y'all selling weed? - No. - Personal use? - Yeah. - [Prosecutor] Did Koury have... you were with Koury while he was getting dressed, right? And you were with Koury while y'all were riding to the party and walking up to the party and got to the party? - Mm-hm. - [Prosecutor] And at any point did you see Koury with a gun that night? - No. - Did you have a gun? - No. - [Prosecutor] Did Chris have a gun that night? - No. - [Prosecutor] Did you see anybody out there that night with a gun? - No. - [Prosecutor] You made sure your friends could come in, why'd you do that? - Just out of respect thing. - They didn't know each other, right? - Right. - [Prosecutor] You said Jalen was in the back of the house with somebody else. - Yes. - [Prosecutor] And so what did you do? - I started catching up with some old teammates that were also at the party. - [Prosecutor] Teammates? What were they teammates of? - Football. - Do you play football? - Yes, sir. - Where'd you play football? - Knightdale. - Do you play anywhere else? - No, sir. - Did you go to college? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Do you do any sports in college? - Yes, sir. Football. - Okay. When you're inside the party, do you ever see Chris and Koury come inside? - No. David and Koury didn't come inside. - Sorry, David. I... David and Koury stayed outside. You went inside? - Yes, sir. - But they never came inside. - No, sir. - That you saw. - Right. - [Prosecutor] While you're inside at the party, did anything unusual happen? - No, sir. Not until the situation came up. - [Prosecutor] While inside the party, were there any fights or arguments? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] Anybody have guns that you saw? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] Did you have a gun with you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] Did Koury have a gun with him? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] Did David have a gun with him. - No, sir. - I mean, he wasn't really doing nothing but like, going to his car or like, going nowhere. - Did you go along? - Nah, that's what they was leaving. - [Prosecutor] Okay. The boy that you say you saw, was he walking or did he run? What did he do? - Yeah, he kind of, you know, ran like from over here, over there. You know, you ain't trying to miss your ride. - Okay. - Better hurry up. - [Prosecutor] Okay, So he was in the front yard. He left the front yard area in the same direction as those other guys did. - Mm-hm. Like, he probably came out a little bit like after them, and was going to catch up. That was like it. That's about it. - [Prosecutor] Okay. And did you watch him? - Yeah, I mean, I saw him run over there. - [Prosecutor] Okay, when he was running, what did you see happen, if anything? - No, he just ran over there to them. - [Prosecutor] Okay. When he ran over there to them, what happened? - They was chilling, and next thing you know, like, I look over here at the police lights, and then they start screaming over there. - [Prosecutor] Okay. Did you see anybody or hear anything? You hear a gunshot at all? - No. Me personally, no. I just heard the screaming. - Okay. Did you see anybody fall down? - Nah. I mean, I just remember seeing a boy ran over there, and then I look this way, and then I look back and then they screaming, and then there's some girl, like, screaming "Somebody on the ground." - [Prosecutor] You see them? Did you, when they went... Sorry. When you hear the girl screaming, "there's somebody on the ground," did you see anybody laying on the ground? - Yeah. When I started walking back in the house, you know, I looked. You know, I'm not going to not look. You know? - [Prosecutor] When you looked, can you describe where that guy was. - On the ground. - [Prosecutor] Okay. Was he in the yard? - Yeah, but not. Not like... He wasn't even halfway in his yard from what it looked like to me. It was just like, you know. He was like, by his car, but not really, like... Maybe like five feet in the yard, something like that. - Just a little bit. - Yeah he was just like, a little bit past the mailbox, like, laying in the ground. - [Prosecutor] While you were at the party, did you see any guns or anybody have anything out? - No. I mean. The reason why the reason why I, you know, everybody left because, like, they were drinking up all our liquor. That was it. That was it. There wasn't none of that. It was just like a chill party. Everybody was there, peaceful. - [Prosecutor] So people are drinking up your liquor and there's too many guys so you asked them to leave? - Yeah, really. Wouldn't you? - [Defense] Good morning. When you're comfortable would you please introduce yourself to the jury? - Hi, guys. I'm Chad Copley. - [Defense] Chad, tell us a little bit about your background, your family, when you came to North Carolina. - I come to North Carolina, 1995-96. I have a wife, two daughters, one's now seven, and the other's five. I have a son. He's 18. I work in the medical field. I deliver medical products to hospitals. If you go into any type of hospital, you'll see Hill-Rom. And that's what we do. On the side I'm a barber, I cut hair out of my shop that I've set up in my garage. - [Defense] I want to back up a little bit. You said your son now is 18 years old. - Yes. - What's his name? - His name is Troy. - [Defense] That's from your first marriage? - Correct. - [Defense] Who are you married to now? - I'm married to my wife, (audio mutes) Copley - [Defense] When did y'all get married? - You'll get me, You're gonna get me in trouble for this one. Um, 9-9-09. - [Defense] Let's go back to the morning of August 6th 2016, you said that you had an argument with your wife? - I did, yes. - What happened then? I guess that was in the morning. Yeah. Um... She took (audio mutes) and they went out for the day. I went to the park or wherever, had some lunch and they then came back I'd say it's probably 7:00. That's time for them to eat, around 6:30, 7:00. - You may have said this, but where was Troy and he come back? - No. No, not at that point in time. He has not come back. - All right. Okay, so tell us a little bit more then from that point in time. Is that where when your wife got back from (audio mutes)? - She did, yes. And then she uh... Oh no... had been, you know, been drinking a little bit that day, sleeping, just hanging out in the garage. That's where I normally hang out whenever we got into an argument, They came back and my wife, she, you know, she tried to make up with me and just stubborn and hardheaded. I didn't want to hear anything she had to say, said hi to my kids and shut the door, went back to sleep on the couch. - [Defense] By couch are you talking about this garage area? - Yeah, the garage area was barbershop, man cave put together when my son come to live with us. That was the only room I could put him in. So we was in the process of shutting all that down and turning it into actual livable space for him. I told him that would square it away. That's when I went upstairs to try to salvage what I could with the argument that me and my wife was having. - [Defense] What happened then? - Well, we made up, you know, everything's good. We kind of drift off to sleep. And sometimes, sometimes after midnight, I kind of wake up and I'm like, you know, try to get some makeup sex. And I don't perform too well. I had a hard time rising to the occasion. So I got upset about it. - [Defense] Okay, What happens then? - I happened to look out the window and I have a gathering of people outside my window. I have a white car with a group of people around it. It's a red car and a silver car parked close together. There's some gatherings of people out there too. They're yelling and screaming back and forth, One or two of the people in the groups. Like they're they're arguing, revving their engines sounds like a revving their engines. So I opened the window and I yell out the window, "Would you guys keep it the fuck down? We're trying to sleep in here." - [Defense] So your bedroom is upstairs at the furthest end of the house facing the street. - Correct. Upstairs, furthest right, facing the street. - [Defense] What happens at that point? - At that point they then yell back, "Shut the fuck up. "Fuck you. Go inside, white boy." Things of that nature. - [Defense] What else did you see? - I seen some firearms out in the crowd. Three people had firearms. One of the gentleman who had firearms, big baggy white shirt and red shoes. Another gentleman, red hat, red shirt had one. And then the third gentleman, he had black shoes on that looked like Adidas, they were three stripes. The stripes were actually reflect in light. They was out there in the street, stuck out in my head. He was the fella who actually aimed a gun up in my my area at that window. - [Defense] To the best of your recollection, what when you say firearms, where did you see them and how could you see them? - Two of the gentleman, baggy white shirt guy and red hat, red shirt guy actually lifted their shirts up, flashing the firearms. The other gentleman pulled his whole way completely out. So I got to see that one come out pretty well. - [Defense] Was it pulled out, pointed at you or more just showing it off. How would you describe it? - It was it was pulled out aimed in my direction. The other gentleman were more or less showing them off, like flashing them. - [Defense] Okay. What did you do at that point? - At that point in time, I told my wife, I'm going to go downstairs I'm gonna get Troy. My first thought at that was this boy outside raising hell, these are his friends, you know, what's he doing, why is he doing this again? Because it would be a stunt at that time my son would pull. - [Defense] What do you mean by that? Why would you assume Troy might be out there with some of the folks you were seeing? He's a hoodlum as well. He gets a wild hair up his ass and he just decides to go do whatever it is he wants to do, you know, without any consequence to other people. - [Defense] What's your definition of a hoodlum? - It's like a juvenile delinquent, someone that will not listen to authority or listen to their parents and just kind of takes every day as that day and doesn't care about the tomorrow. They're living in that day because that's all they care about. - [Defense] Why did you call 911. - The 911 call, it went out. My wife and I were caught going back and forth. I'm like, I'm just gonna go downstairs. I mean, I'm gonna get him and, you know, put him back in the house. She's like, "No, you need to call 911. You need to call 911." So I pick up the phone, I call 911 and then... - [Defense] We'll stop you right there. - All right. - [Defense] On the number one call that was played in court, we heard Mr. Latour emphasize this, "I'ma kill him" or something like that. What were you saying? What were you thinking? What did you mean? - I was thinking my son's out there, and that's... My wife's like, "Don't go out there. Just call the police." And I'm like, "Nah, I'm gonna fucking kill him," you know? Meaning my son. I was upset. I'm thinking, this is Troy. These are people to Troy. They're in the house or out in front of the house, rather, just to pull another stunt. - [Defense] In this 911 call, you don't give the specific address of your house. Why is that? There's a couple of reasons for that. One, I believe that he had some people that were racing up and down the street, so Singleleaf Lane is not a very large street, four or five blocks maybe. The number two reason, this one was important, is if my son is out there, I do not want his name put into this. I don't want the cops to roll up and pick him up and get him sent back to White County Detention Center again for being outside, possibly with that crowd of people. - [Defense] What did you do after that? - After that, I grabbed the Mossberg and... - [Defense] Before or after? - Before or after the 911 call? After the 911 call, I grabbed the shotgun. - [Defense] What happens next? - I'm able to look through the window and I see two people standing by my wife's van, one person's directly behind the van still has a white shirt on and there's another guy that's off to the side of the van, like the driver's side. He has a red hat, red shirt. - [Defense] What kind of hat did you think it was at the time? - I believed it to be an Atlanta Hawks hat. - [Defense] What did you see after that or what did you do to, what did you say, if anything? - I start yelling, "Leave the premises, I have a firearm. PD is on the way." So I'm yelling this several times and I got their attention, but they did not seem like they want to leave - By PD, do you mean police? - Yes, police department. I'm sorry, police department. "Exit the property. I have a gun." - [Defense] Did they leave the, did they run off and leave your driveway? - One... The red hat guy, he, he took off towards the tree lines and the guy with the white shirt kinda, he kind of just hung out mainly where he was at behind the van. If he was walking, he would have been walking back towards the tree line as well. And then the gentleman that was going towards the tree line with the red hat and red shirt just decides to come back into the yard for some reason. So he's heading back towards our window, towards our house. - [Defense] What did you see, if anything? - (clears throat) I um... I kept telling them to leave and um, and he didn't leave. He uh... He reached for his, he reached for his gun and I shot him. - [Narrator] Viewers of this channel are familiar with the risks of a defendant testifying in a criminal trial. Juror reactions can be unpredictable. And like it or not, they may form negative opinions based on the subject's demeanor, body language or responses. Yet the greatest risk lies in cross examination. The upcoming clip demonstrates this hazard, showcasing a prosecutor's use of closed-ended questions to dominate the dialog, leaving the defendant little room for damage control. While the defendant can elaborate on their answer, if a simple yes or no would be misleading or insufficient, a carefully framed question may discourage an expansive response. This strategy mirrors the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" boxing tactic, where the goal is to strike effectively while evading counter attacks. - Good morning. - Good morning. - [Prosecutor] So you lied to the police, huh? - Yes, I did. - [Prosecutor] The only thing you lied to them about was the warning shot? - Yes. - Okay. You just got a little bit emotional. Are you feeling better? - I am. - [Prosecutor] That's the most emotion you've shown since all of this happened, isn't it? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You didn't cry like that when you were talking about killing Kouren Thomas when you're talking to the police, did you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] You didn't cry like that when Kouren Thomas was laying dying in your yard, did you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] But now you feel bad that you killed him. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You talked to the police for a long time, didn't you? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And when you talked to the police, I mean a couple of hours, probably, right? - Correct. Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And they were asking you multiple times throughout this entire interview that you had with about what happened, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And they asked you about that warning shot several times, didn't they? - Yes, sir, they did. - [Prosecutor] And when they asked you about the warning shot, you continue really told them that you were firing a warning shot? - Yes, sir, I did. - [Prosecutor] How many times did you tell the police that you fired a warning shot? - Several times. - [Prosecutor] Well, was it more like over 10? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You even went through so far as to stand up and show them this warning shot, or not to stand up but have described for them how you went about firing a warning shot, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And you told them that you were never aiming at anybody, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And you told them that you were aiming, in fact, at the ground, right? - I did. - [Prosecutor] The police aren't the only people you lied to, though, are there? - Not that I'm aware of. - [Prosecutor] Well, you lied to 911 operator, too, didn't you? - Yes, sir, I did. - [Prosecutor] Told that 911 operator that you were firing a warning shot, right? - I did. - [Prosecutor] You were upset that day, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You'd been upset all day long. Hadn't you? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Just sitting and stewing in it, right? - Feeling sorry for myself. Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Weren't feeling sorry for anybody else, were you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] You were mad at your wife, right? - Yes, sir, I was. - [Prosecutor] You mad at your son, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You were mad at the neighbors having a party, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And you come in today. And how long have you had to think about this? - 18, 19 months. - [Prosecutor] It's a fairly long time to sit and come up with a story about to justify why you might not be guilty of murder, isn't it? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And that's kind of what you've been doing is thinking about this, isn't it? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] When you were talking to the police and when you talked to 911 shortly thereafter all of this, you had less time to come up with a story, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] There were probably more holes in your story then than there are now, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Because you've been thinking about it for over a year. Had a chance to fill in those holes with things that might make you look better, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] When you called 911, you heard the 911 call, right? - I did. - [Prosecutor] And that was State's exhibit five. You were in the courtroom? - Yes, I was. - [Prosecutor] Your Honor, if I may have you pull up the system so that I can play that 911 call for Mr. Copley. I want to ask you some things. Some things that you say in there. Okay. - All right. - [Prosecutor] Yes, sir. Thank you. - [Call Log] Sunday, August 7th, 2017. 00:50 and 35 seconds. (call chimes) - [Copley] No. I'm gonna kill him. - [Prosecutor] "No, I'm going to kill him." - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Now, you want this jury to believe that you're talking about your son at that point, right? - Yes, sir, I do. - [Prosecutor] You're going to go down because you're mad at Troy. You think these are his friends that are out there at that party? - I do. - [Prosecutor] But Troy came home at 11:00 that night, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You knew that this party was going on up the street, didn't you? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Okay. You thought Troy went to the party up the street? - Yes, sir, had something to do with the party and the gathering of people at the party. - [Prosecutor] But Troy had been gone from your house for how long, according to you? - About two weeks. - [Prosecutor] So he's been gone for two weeks, and now he's shown back up. And he's the reason that this party is going on. - So he'd be out there with the people at the party. - [Prosecutor] And you say that you think that are Troy's friends when you're going out there, right? - Correct. - [Prosecutor] And you don't want to tell the police that Troy is out there because you're afraid of what might happen to Troy. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] So you're withholding information from police officers who you're asking to come to a scene, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Now, let's continue all of that 911 call. - [Dispatcher] 911, what's the address of your emergency? - [Copley] It's, uh, Singleleaf Lane. We've got a bunch of hoodlums out here racing. I am locked and loaded. I'm going outside to secure my neighborhood - [Prosecutor] You're "locked and loaded and you're going outside to secure your neighborhood." This is after you've raised the window and talked to these people, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And you reached under the bed and pulled out a pump action shotgun. - I did. - [Prosecutor] And you loaded that shotgun. How long did it take you to load that shotgun? - 20 seconds, maybe. - [Prosecutor] At this point, you testified that nobody was really racing up and down the street, were they? They were kind of blocking the road, revving engines. - Correct. - [Prosecutor] You didn't see cars racing up and down the street, did you? - No. - [Prosecutor] So that was a lie to the 911 operator, wasn't it? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] These people have supposedly flashed weapons at you at this point, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And you tell the 911 operator that you're locked and loaded and going outside to secure your neighborhood, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You didn't say I'm going outside to ask them to leave or I'm going to go outside and make sure that everyone's safe, did you? - Yes, sir, I did. - [Copley] You need to send P.D. as quickly as possible. - [Dispatcher] I'm sorry, you're going out to do what to the neighborhood, sir? - [Copley] I'm gonna secure my neighborhood. I'm on neighborhood watch. - [Prosecutor] You're on neighborhood watch. There's not a neighborhood watch, is there? - Not that I'm aware of, sir. - [Prosecutor] And so that was another lie that you told the 911 operator? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] I believe the next thing you're about to say is that you had a neighbor. You're have your neighbors with you, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Was that another lie to the 911 operator? - Yes, sir. There's hoodlums out here racing up and down the street. - [Prosecutor] Reiterate that first lie that there are hoodlums rising up and down the street, don't you? - Yes, sir. It's one o'clock in the morning, uh, there's some vandalism. They have... - [Prosecutor] Vandalism. They weren't out there vandalizing anything, were they? - Not that I've seen. No, sir. - [Prosecutor] You lied to the 911 operator again. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Are we seeing a pattern, Chad? - Yes, sir. And we're gonna secure our neighborhood. If I were you I'd send P.D. - [Dispatcher] Okay sir, can you tell me where Singleleaf runs off of? - [Copley] It's Singleleaf Lane, Raleigh North Carolina. - [Dispatcher] Right, sir, can you give numeric on Singleleaf? Or an intersection? - [Copley] Negative, ma'am. It's on Singleleaf, Raleigh, North Carolina. PD know it's at. Thank you. - [Prosecutor] Now you say that you don't want to give them the address because you're afraid that your son might be out there, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] But that's not what you told Detective Stroud when you were interviewing with him, was it? - I don't believe so, sir. - [Prosecutor] So I guess that's not the only thing that you lied to the detectives about, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You, in fact, told Detective Stroud that. And by the time you taught the Detective Stroud, you realized that Troy, according to you, is in the garage and has nothing to do with these people outside, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And as you said, he had the, what was it? Fear in his eyes? - Yes, sir. - Okay. When you see Detective Stroud, you have no reason to tell him that, Chad, or that Troy is not in the garage, right? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] You have no reason to try to minimize what you initially thought was Troy's involvement in all of this with them, did you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] You have no reason to say that if you were really going outside to find Troy, that you were going downstairs and you were going to step outside and find your son and bring him back in the safety, right? - That's correct. - [Prosecutor] But that's not what you told him, is it? - No, it's not. - [Prosecutor] What you told him is that you knew Troy was in the garage and you went downstairs to get Troy so you can send him upstairs, right? - I don't think I said that. If I did, then yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] What do you think you told him? - I think I told him I was going downstairs to get Troy to make sure he was safe at the house. - [Prosecutor] But you didn't go outside to find him, did you? - No, I never went outside. - [Prosecutor] You went into the garage to find him? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And where was Troy? - Well, he was in the garage. - [Prosecutor] Right where you had left him. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And so you send Troy back upstairs, right? - Yes, sir. - And this is when you say that- (juror coughing) Hold on. You say that you sent Troy upstairs and you were in that garage. And you look out the window and you see people, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You also said you saw some people in the back yard. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You heard everybody testifying, right? - I did. - [Prosecutor] And nobody said that anybody was in that backyard but you, right? - I believe so. Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] When you see these people in the front yard, these are the same people that you saw upstairs when you were upstairs? - Yes, sir. I believe they were. - [Prosecutor] You started talking to Detective Stroud about what these people were doing in the front yard. And you told the jury today that somebody made a motion to grab a gun and you thought they were going to shoot you in the front yard. And that was the kid in the red? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] That's not what you told Detective Stroud, is it? - No, sir, it's not. - [Prosecutor] And in fact, when you talked to Detective Stroud, you never tell him or any other police officer that at the time you shot that gun, anybody had a gun or was making any motion for a gun or anything like that, right? - I believe that's correct, yes. - [Prosecutor] But now that you're in court, the story's different. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You also told the police that when you were in your bedroom, you lifted the window gently, the screen fell out and you asked them to please be quiet. Your daughters are trying to sleep, right? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] That's not what you're telling us today, though, isn't? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] And they asked you about that, didn't they? - They did. - [Prosecutor] They asked you to clarify that. - They did. - [Prosecutor] And you stuck to that story that you were just, "Nope, please be quiet, guys. We're trying to sleep up here." - I did. - [Prosecutor] You didn't tell the police anything about Troy not being gone, right? - No. - [Prosecutor] You didn't tell the police anything about thinking that Troy was involved in any of this, right? - No. - [Prosecutor] You didn't tell the police anything about Troy not being home that day and coming later in the evening, did you? - Not that I recall, no. - [Prosecutor] You didn't tell the police that you had been in an argument with your wife earlier in the day, did you? - No, sir, I didn't. - [Prosecutor] You didn't tell the police a lot of things that you've told us today, but we're supposed to believe you today about all of this stuff, right? - That would be nice. Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] It would be nice, wouldn't it? - It would be. - [Prosecutor] But that's not what the story's been until you're asked to come into court, is it? - That's right. - [Prosecutor] And now that you've had over a year to think about it, you've come up with this story, haven't you? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You were mad at those guys out in the yard, weren't you? - Yes, sir, I was mad. - [Prosecutor] That's why you told them to, quote: "You guys, keep it the fuck down." - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Before you raised that window and said anything to those kids in the front yard or in the street, did they say anything to you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] They didn't even know you were there, did they? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] The only way they knew that you were there, or had any interaction with is when you raised the window cussing at them. - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] You had the shotgun already out when you did that, didn't you? - I believe so, sir. - Okay. Now, you say that this person in the red was wearing a Hawks hat. - That's what I believe so. Yes, sir. - You're a sports fan? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] Got a lot of sports stuff in the garage? - I do - [Prosecutor] You know the difference between a Hawks hat and a NC State hat? - I do, sir, yes. - [Prosecutor] And the person that you saw was wearing a Hawks hat, weren't they? - I believed it to be. Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And you shot this person dead center. How close were they to you? - 20 feet. - [Prosecutor] You told police they were about 50 feet away from you, didn't they? Didn't you? - Maybe. Maybe I did. - [Prosecutor] And this person that you shot, you say was over by the natural area in your front yard, right? - Correct. - [Prosecutor] And that's to the, if you're facing the house, that would be to the left. If you're looking out the garage window, that would be to your right. - Correct. - [Prosecutor] And you fire straight out the window, don't you? - I do. - Okay. And you said this was a 12 gauge shotgun. - Yes. - [Prosecutor] Had a slug in it, didn't it? - Yes. - [Prosecutor] Didn't have bird shot or any small bird ammo? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] When you loaded the gun, you picked the bullets that had the most bang for your buck, didn't you? - Those are the shells I keep beside the bed. - [Prosecutor] Why do you keep those shells beside the bed? - In case of a intruder. - [Prosecutor] And you want a shell beside your bed that has the most bang for your buck. You don't want to shoot them with bird shot, right? - No, sir, you don't. - [Prosecutor] You want to shoot them with a slug because it's going to do damage. - Or buckshot. - [Prosecutor] But you chose a slug, didn't you? - I grabbed the first box, the shells. They were slugs. Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] And when you shot this man in the front yard with a shotgun from fairly close range? All he does is spin around? - Yes, sir, he spins around, tosses the gun like he's heading back towards the street. - [Prosecutor] When he causes his gun, does he drop the gun? Does he throw the gun? What does he do? - He flings it out to his side. - [Prosecutor] What hand was he holding the gun in? - Right hand. - [Prosecutor] So you shoot him in the right arm with a 12 gauge shotgun slug. He's still able to hold on to a gun, fling it as he spins around, and then run towards the street. - I believe when I shot him, he got to contact on his arm. But that's what made the flanking motion, um, of the gun. - [Prosecutor] Well, that's not what you testified to, though, is it? What you testified to is he's coming at you. He reaches like he's going to pull the gun. You didn't say he got the gun out at that point because he didn't get the gun out, did he? - I believe he did, sir. - [Prosecutor] Okay, so he pulls the gun out and you shoot him in the arm. And what you testified to earlier, before I started pointing out to you, the flaws in this logic are that he then tosses the gun and turns around and runs away, right? - I believe I said he ran away. I do know he turned around. - [Prosecutor] And started going towards the street? - Yes, sir. - [Prosecutor] But now that you're thinking about it and realizing that you shot him with a shotgun, now you think maybe it was the shotgun blast that made him toss the gun to the side? - Could be. - Okay. So your story is now changing from when you were initially questioned about what happened until now I'm asking you about it. It's different again, right? - I'm-I'm not sure. - [Prosecutor] Well, you told him that he threw the gun. Now you're saying that he got shot and he dropped the gun. So that's a different thing, isn't it? - Uh, that is, sir. Yes, sir. But that was... - Not only... I'm sorry. What? - I'm-I'm sorry. I never said he dropped the gun. - [Prosecutor] What, did he throw the gun? - Yes, sir. - Okay. So he gets shot in the arm with a shotgun and he's still able throw a gun. - Yes, sir. - Okay. You've never told the police anything about that, did you? - No, sir. - [Prosecutor] And your whole issue here when you're talking to the police is you don't want to get charged, do you? - No, sir, I don't. - [Prosecutor] Don't you think it would have been important information for a police officer to know, especially if you think you know the law well enough to say you had to fire a warning shot, that somebody has a gun and is pointing it at you? - Looking back, yes, sir. That would have been very helpful. - [Prosecutor] Exactly. Looking back, that would have been helpful. - Yes. - [Prosecutor] You didn't think about it then, but you thought about it 18 months later, right? - Yes, sir. - [Narrator] The cross-examination was unequivocally detrimental to the defendant's case. However, before casting fault on his legal representation, it's important to understand that testifying is a defendant's right. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the defense attorney advises against taking the stand. But ultimately, the client may choose to ignore the counsel's recommendation and testify anyway. On Thursday, February 23rd, 2018, it took a North Carolina jury about 90 minutes to convict Chad Copley of premeditated murder in the death of 20 year old Koury Thomas. The following day, a Wake County judge sentenced Copley to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Yet the case did not end there. The defense appealed the verdict, and 15 months later, an appellate court overturned Copley's conviction. Two of three judges ruled that when the prosecutor said in closing arguments that Copley shot Koury because he was black, the trial had become tainted. Therefore, Copley was entitled to a new trial. Prosecutors promptly appealed to the state Supreme Court, who reversed the appeals court decision, ruling that there was so much evidence of Copley's guilt that the prosecutor's race comment did not result in an unfair trial. The state Supreme Court ordered the Appeals Court to reconsider the case for other potential errors. The Appeals Court reviewed the case in 2021 and agreed to uphold the conviction. But as expected, the defense appealed that decision to the state Supreme Court, and the higher court began hearing arguments on February 24th, 2024. The state Supreme Court indicated they would issue a ruling at a later date as to whether Copley would be granted a new trial. As usual, this channel will provide updates to our community section as soon as the information becomes available. As for the family of Koury Thomas, who have navigated the complex judicial system for more than seven years in pursuit of justice for their loved one, they had one key takeaway they wanted everyone to know. - He just wanted people to know that he wasn't a hoodlum. He wasn't a bad kid. He wasn't a thug. He wasn't a gang banger. And I just wanted to clear his name so people can know he was a good kid. (dramatic percussive music)