do you have a date of birth then cuz I have to run it with a name and date of birth I'm I'm not going to answer that question so you're you're you're ask you're telling me how I should do my job yet you're not allowing me to do my job stand up for my right I have absolutely nothing in the vehicle okay and you don't mind confirming that by allowing us to look and make sure there's nothing in the vehicle I do mind but only because I'm a lawyer is there any situation in which the person just says I'm not talking to you and you would detain them now now that you know the actual order I'm going to object again it's calling for speculation can answer if you understood I can't say these are the moments when cops destroyed by 200 IQ lawyers starting with a case of the officers who sued twice for unlawful conduct what are you arrested him for huh he hasn't violated really a crime de are you investigating a crime possible crime possibly he's instructing an officer from doing his duty right on March 22nd 2019 Kenneth Grant an Oklahoma City based insurance adjuster parked outside a home on Summer Valley Road in Blanchard Oklahoma he was waiting to inspect the roof with permission from the homeowner officer Haynes questioned Mr Grant asking for identification as the interaction escalated officer Haynes called the assistant district attorney Ada for advice the Ada confirmed that without suspicion of a crime Mr Grant was under no obligation to provide ID how's it going man uh you live over here or what's we doing over here I thought a couple people call in on you no they're just calling on you saying that a truck in the area so my duty to check and see if you live over here what's going on over here for purpose okay all right you working you see you got a ladder in the back you working somewhere yes sir you got driver's license on you just I can identify you well I like to identify you just know who I'm dealing with make sure well if I'm making contact with you for a Reon suspicious call like I am right now being suspicious well sir here's the deal I was called on you okay um for a suspicious vehicle you said yourself you don't live over here you have a purpose what's your purpose is the purpose legal or illegal that's okay so for me determine I need to proce see your ID how is my ID going to determine whether I'm let you know who I'm dealing with lets me know who I'm dealing with but my name my name doesn't tell you whether I'm yeah it will tell me like if I don't know if you belong over here you said you don't so I don't know if someone over here's got VP or something against you if you got your an ID something did I say I didn't belong over here you said you had purpose I don't live over here okay okay I I do belong here okay all right so that that's as far as I'm willing to take it do you have a date of birth then because I have to run it with a name and date of birth not going answer that question so you're you're you're ask you're telling me how I should do my job yet you're not allowing me to do my job standing up for my rights and I understand that like I said I haven't done anything wrong I'm doing my job conducting investigation I haven't committed a crime I'm sitting here in front of the house which is perfectly legal well you're not completely on the roadway there sir you understand that by not identifying yourself appropriately as requested by the officer is illegal it's obstruction it's that's a secondary charge okay I have to be for you to ID me I have toped well you committ trespassing shut up somebody has called in you don't tell me Shut up I'll tell you what I want to tell you and you are also required by law upon request from law enforcement to ID yourself hey Travis hey what's up man nothing sorry to bother you I got a random question for you though technically there's no obligation for him to identify himself I mean unless you got reasonable suici a crime well the thing is is I have no reason suici to believe that he's not committing crime because he has a ladder in the back of the truck and he's in front of houses that aren't occupied right now I I'm curious why a man from Oklahoma City is parked on a dead end Road in Blanchard and uh you know he has no I ask him if he lives here and he says I don't answer questions yeah manid okay no that's why I called you instead of just ripping him out of his truck despite this Haynes with the support of police chief Stacy white detained Mr Grant citing obstruction of justice a charge vague and often misapplied under Oklahoma statute 21540 eventually the officers released Mr Grant without charges however Blanchard police chief White ordered a citation for obstruction none of the officers issued it after the chief left well we don't want to identify ourselves completely he we have his name based on the tag but we don't know that that's actually his name that could just be the person registered to this vehicle and he doesn't a suspicious person I don't know that he cooperate arres we're about to get ready to do that maty one more under [Applause] arrest what are you arresting for he VI really crime are you investigating a crime possible crime possibly he's instructing an officer from doing his duty [Music] right I'm not here to to listen to you I'm here to tell you what's going on okay I don't care if you record me okay you're obstructing an officer from doing his de now you're under arrest unless you want to court okay but I mean why do I have to answer questions I'm here for a legal reason I'm questions can I get your date of birth you're feeling here by law I have the Fifth Amendment right you are faing to identif I Bren whatw at this house what law have I done back site what obstruction one okay just relaying what two told me that one I'm not following the incident Mr Grant filed complaints against the department local officials and the assistant district attorney for ignoring misconduct and failing to fulfill public records requests but wait for this next case where Orlando attorney refuses police request to search car in July 2020 an Orlando attorney was pulled over by police for alleged vehicle infractions including non-compliant tag lights and a license plate border obscuring the county name during the stop the officer explained that the two white lights on the attorney's vehicle were projecting outward rather than Illuminating the tag a violation under Florida law h brother Hi how are you how long ago did you get in a crash um like a year Okay the reason I pulled you you can't have white light emitting back what do you mean your tag lights they're supposed to illuminate your tag those two white lights all they're doing is shooting straight back you can't have any white light limiting them back so then that also doesn't illuminate your tag but on top of that you got a border around your tag that blocks the county that you live in you can't have that on your tag are you talking about the one that the cardio ship puts at the black one that silver one that goes around your tag yeah you can't have that you got your license brother of course vehicle registered you of course so well can you got your registration for me give me favorite roll down that other window for me thank you very where you headed to man home where's Home on uh University on pier Drive how long you been uh in Orlando huh I work here some or so okay your address just still say says St Pete on your license yeah I need to update it when my tag get Mar okay are you cance weapons holder any weapons in the vehicle I need to be aware of nope nothing illegal in the car all right so after I'm done if I ask to search the vehicle to verify what you're saying is true you don't mind I do mind but only because I'm lawyer okay so you know I consented that's what I'm asking so you have nothing in the vehicle I have absolutely nothing in the vehicle okay and you don't mind confirming that by allowing us to look and make sure there's nothing in the vehicle as you can imagine we hear no all the time as they have nothing and we find stuff I okay cool just hang t Okay after running the attorney's information and verifying it the officer issued warnings instead of citations he advised the attorney to fix the tag lights remove the border and and update his address on the license to reflect his current residency in Orlando 28 29 by owner Florida tag Charlie Alpha Hotel Quebec 15 all right nichas so one you got to get that that fixed those white lights in the back okay you keep getting pulled like that you're going to get tickets non-stop I'll get understand that that border take that border off understand that no further action was taken and the attorney drove away without incident but hold on your seats because this next case is more shocking than the others on January 15th 2019 an incident unfolded at the Cook County Courthouse that would spark a legal battle over constitutional rights and police conduct Samantha stood outside the public Courthouse recording footage of the building her actions entirely lawful under the First Amendment soon attracted the attention of Lieutenant Donald madzo and Sergeant Jennifer lson both seasoned officers with over 20 years of service as Lieutenant madzo approached he asserted that Samantha could not record the courthouse claiming there was a Judicial order prohibiting such activity how many other people that you can think of have been detained for taking pictures outside of the courthouse since 2001 I couldn't answer that any that you can think of there have been other reports done yes okay um one's the most recent one that you can think of I don't know right and your testimony is that you were told it was a a written policy how is it that this policy was conveyed to you that you're supposed to detain people outside of the building taking [Music] pictures it was just a standing policy we had did you hear my question you repeat it sure how is it that you became aware of the policy did somebody tell you did somebody post it was it an email F back I remember would have been the chief Deputy Robert beavers have you discussed this case with anybody else in preparation for today other than your lawyer no all right have you reviewed anything just my offense in reports you didn't review the actual policy or the judicial order that you referred to no okay have you looked at the judicial order since uh March yes all right when did you look at it from the time well okay you arrested Miss burquest on I think it was March 28th 2018 right correct okay um after you arrested her did you look at the order that day no how soon after the arrest did you look up the order to see what it actually said I don't recall okay was it was it very soon after was it only after you got served with a lawsuit can you help me out at all cuz it's almost a year later again I can't recall when we when I looked at it do you remember if it was hot or cold outside I don't do you remember where you looked it up I don't recall did you ask somebody to bring it to you or did you look it up yourself I believe it was sent to us by our main offices So when you say it was I'm Sorry by Chief of Court's Office what's what's that person's name at that time I think it would have been Eddie iant and he sent it to you by way of email text message how did he send it to you I don't recall is it documented somewhere is what documented that he sent this to you is there a note somewhere indicating that he sent it to you is there a text message a phone call an email anything that would point to him actually sending you this judicial order and again we're talking after Miss brist was arrested I can't answer that for sure okay uh you had a chance to review the order since the arrest I read it back then yes okay and does it say and around the building it does not right it says in the building right yes right because in the building is where the order pertains to right correct outside of the building is public and anybody could take pictures there all day and all night right correct in fact Miss buris could go outside right now and do exactly what she was doing back on the day that you arrested her and if you saw her doing it what would you do today I'm going to object cause for speculation you can answer it if you understood the question question we probably would not have detained her would not have detained her so if you would have actually known the law you would not have detained her right well right now we would know what she was doing out there but at the time we didn't know if she was videotaping people coming out videotaping Witnesses videotaping people that were involved in domestic violence videotaping inside the door where the post were we didn't know that any of those examples you just gave if that's what you thought she was doing would you arrest her then then now would you arrest her now now I know who she is and I know what she's doing forget her let's say somebody else is outside we get done with the deposition you walk outside or you look outside your window and you see somebody filming the building are you going to go over and detain that person or not I'm going to object again calls for speculation Samantha aware of her rights pointed out that suspicion alone does not constitute a lawful basis for detainment undeterred milatzo and Larsson escalated the situation insisting she accompanied them inside Samantha refused reiterating her right to film in a public space at one point lson sarcastically commented on her decision to remain silent a clear demonstration of the officer's disregard for the protections afforded under the Fifth Amendment malaso growing more aggressive threatened Samantha with 90 days in jail for contempt of court if she did not comply eventually the officers handcuffed Samantha claiming it was necessary for officer safety her camera was confiscated and she was taken inside the courthouse was Miss berquist detained for taking pictures yes and for not identifying herself right is there a law that requires people to identify themselves when requested by law enforcement I don't know okay did you delete her pictures [Music] okay did you delete my footage do you want to cooperate or not I'm remaining silent no who did don't know you don't know who deleted her pictures no did you ever tell her that she was going to go to jail for 90 days [Music] I believe we informed her the judge could hold her in contempt for up to 90 days but you never told her matter of factly that she's going to go to jail for 90 days if she doesn't give you her ID okay um we're going to probably take her in front of the judge he's going to hold her in contempt for I think right now he's doing 90 days okay so is that okay with you I mean silent okay you realize you're going to go to Cook County Jail for 90 days silent I don't recall that no well did you or did you not or do you not know I do not recall that is that something that you would do and [Music] say no the aftermath of the incident saw Samantha released without charges but the damage was done she filed a lawsuit against Cook County alleging multiple violations of her civil rights including unlawful detainment intimidation illegal arrest and destruction of property in depositions both officers struggled to justify their actions admitted she was unfamiliar with the Fourth Amendment while milatzo dismissed Samantha's concerns as the behavior of a crazy on September 14th 2023 officer purle of the New Mexico State University Police Department responded to an anonymous tip alleging that 19-year-old student Joel Martinez had brought a case of beer into his dorm room in Los Cruses New Mexico shortly after officer purle knocked on the door Mr Martinez began filming the interaction I can help you is there anyone else in here uh no it's just me okay you mind just opening the door that way I can see uh you trying to what you trying to look for I just want to make sure there's no one else in there start and then I'll talk to you there's no one in there right now okay come out here and talk to me then yeah so I'm going to be honest with you so we got to report that you were seen walking into your dorm with alcohol was there alcohol in there uh I don't answer questions what's your name and your badge number officer fle NMSU police you have an ID with you uh I do okay can I see it uh you suspect me of a crime I do okay what crime and how can you articulate it minor imp possession of alcohol we got a report that you were walked in so it's like here that they say they said thing it's like they said that he has and that that's how you're going to articulate it so we don't have to go down this route if you want to if you want to go down this route we can well I really don't but like you're I'm studying right now I'm doing homework get knocked on my door I'm out here I want to know what's on you say that they they said that they're alcohol in this room how can you articulate it though okay so that's why I'm here talking to you yeah okay so I still need an ID you uh no and then we need to go from there you have to you have to suspect me of a crime I I do you you you realize that uh cops in New Mexico don't have qualified immunity right I do that I do okay so from from here and on just let's just be careful in what you about to do right now you're saying that you want my ID but right now you're not you or yourself can articulate a crime that I've committed okay so so I already explained to you why I'm here why I need your I know what you're here but okay is my D going to tell you there's alcohol in that room no but I still need to identify you my name is Joel I need your first last name and your date of birth no you don't I do if you don't want to provide that you don't want to call officer Donovan or one of your supervisors here yeah I can get a sergeant over all then calling on because right now this is not what you want to do right now cuz this is a violation of my fourth amendment okay all right let me let me get a sergeant over here okay yeah refusing officer P's request for identification Mr Martinez argued that the anonymous report of him bringing alcohol into his dorm room lacks sufficient grounds for reasonable suspicion in similar cases courts have held that anonymous tips alone are often unreliable unless corroborated by specific verifiable details while the caller claimed to have firsthand knowledge of Mr Martinez carrying a case of beer there's no indication that officer purle corroborated the tip Beyond Mr Martinez's appearance this lack of verification could weaken the claim of reasonable suspicion leaving room for Mr Martinez to argue that the detention was unjustified yeah that's my roomate okay you to just hang out out here then is he detained no that's fine I just don't want anyone the room you could go in then if if he's not detained he's free to go yeah he's free to go but he can't go in the room he can't no not at this time they someone called and said that they saw uh or me walk in there with the case of beer but that's all they have so it's an investigation I'm talking to him he doesn't want to identify himself so there's a sergeant on the way that's going to talk to him until this gets figured out I don't want anyone to go in the room is anything going to happen if I don't identify myself you can be arrested for concealing identity yes I want you to say if you don't ID to me right now if I don't give you my ID then you're going to arrest me I want you to give me that ultimatum just hold on you want to wait you said you wanted to wait to speak to a supervisor so let's just do that okay then okay thank you appreciate it okay so right now we have minor possession of alcohol possibly and he asked me if anything's going to happen if he doesn't give me his name and date of birth I called him that potentially you could be arrested for concealing identity we want to go that route okay I want you to give me that ultimatum right here right now he said that you're aware are you aware that NSU or that New Mexico doesn't have qualified immunity yeah so he went down that rout so I think that's what he's trying to get at hi hi name and badge number please Sergeant John love La my badge number is 212 212 all right thank you officer said here that if I don't ID I will be subject to arrest is that true possible yes possible yes or no I need I need that ultimatum or else I won't get my ID okay so technically right now yes you could be arrested could I need a yes or no like I need you to tell me if you don't give me your ID right now I'm going to arrest you why why would I say that to you cuz right now you're asking yes and I have the right to say no cuz you're asking you're not it's not a lawful order I need you to make it a lawful order being detained for suspicion of minor um in possession of alcohol mhm we need to see your ID okay and if not and if not you could be considered identity cuz New Mexico statute says that concealing of identity is a secondary charge I would have to have been arrested or suspected of a crime right now you hear just hear arrested or suspected you're being suspected of having possession on what on what grounds okay so do you have any alcohol in your possession I don't answer questions on grounds what we are trying to do is we're trying to be cooperative with you and have you be cooperative with us and help us clear this matter up okay I gave them my name what's your last name you don't need my last name and you do not need my date of birth unless you want to run me for unless you want to run my name through your system are you trying to run my name through the system you have warrants for your arrest I don't answer questions I don't answer questions I'm asking questions I don't it's my fifth amendment is it or is it not so the other the next the next step in this process would be would you give us consent to check your room NOP to make sure that you have no alcohol in your possession I do not consent to any serges nor seizures okay very good this is completely up to you how you want to play this you can get a warrant or you could so or you have probable costs right now we do have reasonable suspicion that possibly a crime had been committed we're trying to investigate that mhm you're certainly welcome to refuse if you wish I know but we need to ID you if you do not present your identification you can face it a nontra citation no I need that ultimatum I will give you my idea if you say that I'm going to go get arrested if I don't give it to you so you'll give us if we say that if you say that yes sir cuz that's already grounds for me to set up litigation against you so you want us to threaten you yes I want you to give me that ultimatum if you really want the ID threaten you that's not how this is why because you know you can't you know you can't because you know that opens up for litigation and to make this clear I'm detained right now right correct thank you are you googling the loss right now cuz that's really what you should be doing right now all you okay with that yeah continue are you sure you're okay with that yeah I give you per permission okay so here's why we need your name and date of birth I'm going to read you the law because you are a law student okay according to New Mexico it's all being recorded yeah I know my body cam running so I'm I'm going use my my own so concealing identity consist of State okay so your investigation is investigating that I'm in possession of alcohol right that's exactly okay if I don't give you if I give you my IDs I going to tell you if I do or do not have alcohol in that room or is it just find me with something no the ID is so that we can identify who we are talking to if you wish to deny us access to that room that is totally within your rights I know but you refusing to identify yourself To Us by name and date of birth that is concealing identity yeah okay okay so just tell me that if I don't give you the ID you're going to arrest me just say it show us your ID we need to see your ID or you will be arrested thank after repeatedly refusing to identify himself Mr Martinez was informed by Sergeant love lace that he would be arrested for concealing identity if he did not comply under New Mexico law concealing identity involves hiding one's identity with intent to obstruct or hinder an officer in their duties however the statute applies only when officers have Reasonable Suspicion of criminal activity courts have clarified that without Reasonable Suspicion refusing to provide identification is not a crime and individuals are free to leave if a court found the anonymous tip insufficient to establish Reasonable Suspicion it would likely rule that Mr Martin could not be convicted of concealing identity y got that right yeah yeah you got that for real why do you use that term cuz what are you searching my like we're not searching that's a that's that's a seize of my identification it's a seizure of my identification yes or no we just need to see who you are in order to investigation gave us your first name what is my Joel not the legal name or what Joel what he has my ID go look at it perfect that's all we need thank you am I able to go in my room no not yet just hold up for just a minute please guys okay so he's denying us for consent to but we have my so we're going to take make sure we take a report we'll get that here in just all right thank you appreciate it you okay have a good you guys go thank you if we really wanted to push the issue we could stop and lock the room down and get a get a search warrant um but we have an anonymous complaint so it's really kind of really kind of one of those things that's up in the air we don't want Sergeant love lace claimed the officers could lock down the dorm room and obtain a search warrant for the beer however under the Fourth Amendment a warrant requires probable cause which seems unlikely in this case due to the lack of corroboration for the anonymous tip oh wait they're right here right here just listening yeah you're listening M all right anything else I can help you guys with just going to stand and get paid yeah sure just going to stand around and get paid brother yeah yeah like I think we just prove some racist I'm going get complaints on both Chief Donovan is gonna know about because I'm he knows who I am chief Donovan knows you Chief Donovan knows who I am okay very good all right so we're not gonna we're not going to argue with you have out of here well this is actually a common area so we're allowed to be go work I pay you for something yes I P you for something of here cuz you got my ID for no reason brother okay get out of here have a nice day sir after the interaction with Mr Martinez the officers left the dorm without further incident while it's unclear if Mr Martinez filed a complaint with the New Mexico State University Police he stated he would discuss the encounter with Chief Donovan