You cannot be taking pictures. >> I wasn't in the parking lot. >> Hey sir, >> I was on the roadway. This is a public easement, right? The utility poles. >> It is policy. You are take pictures. >> I don't care about your policy. >> You don't care about policy. >> I don't care about their policy. I'm not behind those walls. >> Okay. Do you want to end up behind the walls? >> I don't think I will. >> So, what's your but what is your purpose for being out here? None of your business. Trying to get on YouTube and be famous. >> None of your business. If that's what you think, then you're going to be famous. Am I free to go? >> You're not free to go yet. >> Why not? >> Because >> because your butt hurt. >> A man filming near a prison from what he believed was public property was confronted by a state trooper after staff reported his activity. The key legal question quickly became whether recording in a publicly accessible area created reasonable suspicion of a crime. As the officer attempted to justify detention, the encounter evolved into a dispute over identification, authority, and constitutional protections. >> Nothing. Just taking pictures. >> Take pictures of what? >> Whatever I can see. >> Okay. Well, you're not allowed to be in the parking lot of the taking pictures. >> I wasn't in the parking lot. >> You cannot be taking pictures. >> I wasn't in the parking lot. >> Hey, sir. >> I was on the roadway. This is a public easement, right? Utility. >> It is policy. You are not take pictures. >> I don't care about your policy. >> You don't care about policy. >> I don't care about their policy. I'm not behind those walls. >> Okay. >> Do you want to end up behind the walls? >> I don't think I will >> because it there are there are things in place that you doing. >> Be careful. >> I am being careful. >> Okay. >> You need to also >> You said policy. That is not law. >> Okay. >> Law says I can. >> Okay. But what's your purpose for doing so? >> Whatever I want it for. >> Whatever you want it for. Okay. Okay. Well, that's the problem. See, it's suspicious activity. All right. That's why we're here talking to you. >> Let me ask you a question. >> Yeah. >> Is suspicion >> suspicion of a of criminal activity of foot is a reason for us to be out here talking. >> Is suspicion a misdemeanor or felony? >> It's neither. But it has a right to be here and asking questions. You can ask all you want. It's an investigation and if you don't if you're not going to cooperate, >> I don't have to cooperate with your investigation. I'm not lawfully and none under no obligation to cooperate with you. >> None. >> Okay. I'm just going to tell it to you this way. >> Am I being detained? Am I being detained? >> Technically, right now, you are being detained >> for what? For what? What crime? >> Okay. >> What crime? >> This is This is the issue. Okay. >> What? You tell me what crime and I will tell you. >> You need to be quiet for just a second. >> I am not going to be quiet. I don't have to understand what the word detained means. >> Yes, I do. >> Detained means you are not free to leave. You are not free to leave. >> For what crime? For what crime? You're not being detained for a crime. >> Then I I should be free to go. >> Reasonable suspicion. >> What is your What is your RZ? What is your RZ? >> Okay. >> What is your What is your Raz that that a criminal activity is at foot? >> You are taking pictures and videoing a >> Is that illegal? Is that illegal? >> Do you guys Do you guys arrest the Google car that comes down through here and takes pictures of all this? >> Not a Google car that comes down here and takes >> I can see it on Google Maps. >> That's cuz they use something probably from above. No, they drive right down through here. >> But they don't take pictures of that. >> Yes, they do. That's how I found the place. >> So, what's your but what is your purpose for being out here? None of your business. Trying to get on YouTube and be famous. >> None of your business. If that's what you think, then you're going to be famous. Am I free to go? Am I free to go? >> You're not free to go yet. >> Why not? >> Because >> because your butt hurt. Your ego won't let me continue about my way. It's got nothing to do with my ego, sir. >> Then why? >> I am here because >> this is legally constitutionally protected activity. First amendment. I'm a journalist gathering content for a story on the prison on that prison and the juvenile center. >> Do you have any identification show? >> I don't have to show you. I don't have to show you. >> If I ask you for ID, you do have >> No, you do. No, I do not. >> Yes, you do. >> Not unless I'm legally >> to identify is a crime. >> If I'm legally arrested, >> you don't have to be committing a crime. I if I am here >> if I'm legally in the state of Indiana >> I have no weapons. I have a pocketk knife. That's it. >> Okay. >> And that's all I have. >> I am legally here as well. Okay. >> Because I am legally here. If I tell you why >> don't you step it down a little bit and stop yelling. Okay. >> Well, if you'd stop talking over me >> I don't have to listen to you. Do you understand what I'm saying? >> I'm going to be free to go on my way. >> How am I going to Why not? Because we're not done with this investment. >> Unless you can tell me that I have broken a law for you to stop me, I'm going to leave. >> You are not free to leave. You're going to stand by until there's other people here. >> What other people? >> There's other guys. >> For what? >> Because >> cuz you're a you're an egoomaniac and you're a ego. Okay. >> You're got to call your You got to call your little >> why you're here in the first place. >> I don't have to help you with that. I do not have to cooperate with you at all one bit. And you know you're wrong cuz you're shaking your head. You know I'm right. >> I'm not wrong. >> You are wrong. And you're going to find Where's your supervisor? >> He's on his way. Okay. You'll be more than welcome to talk to him. >> Your sergeant, Lieutenant, >> he's on his way. You're more than welcome to talk to him. >> That's [snorts] fine. I'd like to be on my way cuz I I haven't broken any laws. That's camera by the way. I >> I'm clear on what that is. >> Okay, good. So is this. >> Plenty aware. >> I have another one in my backpack. I have another one here that's rolling as well. So, just be informed. >> I'm perfectly okay with being on camera. >> You got about 600 people watching you right now. >> That's perfectly fine. >> Okay. [snorts] >> So, am I detained? Lawfully. >> You are being detained until this investigation is >> lawfully detained. >> Yes. >> What is your Raz that I am suspicious? >> The fact that you're videoing the prison. >> It is constitutionally protected activity for journalists, for citizens. >> Then you need to provide ident I don't have to provide you anything, sir. [laughter] >> No, I don't. >> That's why I'm having to raise my voice. Because you won't stop trying to talk. >> Because you're being dumb. >> You're being dumb. >> Your ego will not let you walk away. >> The reason if you think that the reason you're allowed to be videoing the prison is because you are a journalist. >> I am a citizen journalist. >> Provide some sort of proof that you are a journalist. >> Sir, no, I don't. Who Who issues credentials? >> Who issues credentials? >> Every single news media outlet issues credential. corporate media, CNN, Fox News, >> journalist, and he's trying to do a story on the prison. >> I'm gathering content on the story. >> Okay, that's all I'm doing. >> What? How long you been journalist? >> About 3 years. >> Can you I'm doing a story on the prison, gathering content, B-roll footage. I haven't gone onto their property up in the gates. I don't know why they told you I was in their parking lot. I've always been on the roadway. I'm riding my bike. I've been spotting trains. Other people have been riding their bikes up and down through here. Nobody said anything. Only because I have a camera. >> Right. Right. >> That's it. >> But you do understand though, they're just being cautious. >> And that's fine. You can come out and ask me all you want, but I need him educated >> that this is constitutionally protected activity. >> It's not It cannot be deemed a criminal act or suspicious. He can come out and ask all the questions he want. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Because it's I'm not committing a crime. >> Let me ask you a quick question. If somebody comes to your house and >> that's my house, sir. >> But they stand on the sidewalk, which is public. >> Absolutely. >> And they sit there and they're videoing your house. Absolutely. You You wouldn't think that's suspicious? >> Nope. >> Because they're on a public sidewalk and actually a public sidewalk runs across my front yard >> and people stand out there and walk up with cigarettes and everything like >> I can completely understand what you're saying. >> We're just trying to make sure nothing else is going on. >> That's fine. Absolutely. >> Like I said, as long as you're not on the property because you know, we got a call that you're on the property. >> Yeah. I you have to on the road it looks like it goes through their property just like this does and down there as well. >> Okay. >> But there's a there's a parking lot on each side, but the road is public, >> right? >> Okay. >> And that's what I was just like this. I was off in the grass a little bit, but up there in the mud, but this is exactly how I was. Now, can you explain to him that I'm not doing anything wrong? >> Right. No, I mean, like I said, we're just trying to make sure. I mean, >> do you guys have cards? >> You want a job? >> Do you guys have business cards? >> I don't have a business card, but I can give you my or our post number, which is >> Well, I was actually going to go over there, too. So, if you guys see me over there, >> just don't just >> Okay. Just got to understand when you're on the, you know, the property and they have cameras and stuff. So, you may get a call and see what's going on. Why are you filming it? >> And just ask questions. All right. Asking questions are fine, but detaining me for an unlawful reason >> and telling me that I'm going to end up behind these bars, behind these walls that >> you asked if Can I Let me have your name and badge number, please. >> My name is Matt Dickerson. So, my badge number is 9435. >> That's enough. Your sergeant's here. Your sergeant's here. I'll talk to him. >> Not the sergeant. Okay. >> Oh, you're not. You said your sergeant. >> You're the supervisor. >> Oh, you said your sergeant was on it way. So, that's why I thought that you were >> at this fine. Like I said, you know, we don't mean any harm. We're just doing >> And I don't either. I have no ill will, no ill intent, >> and that's fine. I get it. But >> how long were you over here, though? >> Uh I was probably back there about 10 minutes. One guy came out and said he was uh worked for the government, and I had to do what he said. I told him to basically kick rocks. >> Were you like on the on this road? >> I was between the parking lot and their entrance. >> Okay. >> Where that stop sign, I was right next to that stop sign. The second time I stopped, I was right in front of the uh entrance way across from there. >> Yes. >> But I was still on the road. I wasn't behind those that barrier. >> Well, overall, are you done filming or are you like >> Well, down here, I got to come back this way, but I'm going to move on down that way because there's what, two more facilities down there, right? All right. Well, like I said, as long as you're not on the property, like I said, if you could stay get out. >> But sir, that's your policy. That's not law. >> You know, escape things or set up people for >> You have three separate, sir. You I've done security. You have three separate lines of security back there. >> But I'm on the You cannot trespass my eyes. >> What's considered you guys property? Is it this role too >> that I'm not familiar with? No sir. No. Look at the GIS survey. Look at the GIS survey. Your property >> there in our facility and anything that's taped on that, >> you know, wants to say that they're not setting up an escape. >> I I can understand that. >> And I can understand that to get somebody out, >> right? >> It's for our safety, >> right? And I I understand that. Um I just didn't know what was considered you guys. >> Sir, let me let me ask you a question. Did you guys put these power poles here? >> All right. Did you put these power poles here? >> No, I didn't put the power poles here. >> Come on. Come on. Who? Who? Who put the power poles here? >> The state. The state. The power company. So, there has to be an easement for public to walk down through here or ride a bike down. There's a sign down there that says share the road with bikes. >> Sure. is a whole lot different than taking >> No, it's not because because people have video GoPros on their head. I saw three of them on bikes go down through here. They all had GoPros on their head. >> Well, I mean, are you done? >> So, this this is a public roadway. Do you guys maintain this? Does the prison maintain this? >> We do. >> On contract with the state, right? >> I assume that's where it is. >> So, it's state. >> So, here's the thing. >> It's public. >> They're saying it's their property. >> All right. So if they're saying it's their property, he works here. So he would know if this it's their property or not. >> So their property ends. >> This is all state property right here. >> Then my taxpayers pay for it, right? Do my taxpayers pay for it. Tax dollars >> so we don't escalate any. Are you done filming or >> I'm just going to go on down through here and do the same thing that I've been doing. >> Okay. Are you >> And then when I get to the end, I'm going to turn around and come back. >> Okay. Are you able to go on the other side of the train tracks and film? >> No. Why would I do that? >> Because it's their property and they're saying that >> sir, it's not. You guys need to find out where their property is then before you tell me I had to vacate >> because this is not this road is not their property. It is a public road. >> Okay. So, >> it has to be >> because it's a cut through. There's neighborhood back there. >> This is going to happen. Okay. I'm going to make some phone calls. Okay. >> Have to find out exactly what their property is. All right. And if it's their property, you have to leave. >> I I will do that. That is a deal. That is perfectly fine. [snorts] And I didn't get your name and badge number. I'm sorry. >> My name is Trent Jones. >> Trent Jones. Okay. >> 8887 is my bad. >> 8887. Thank you. >> And sir, if people drive down through here, you can't trespass their eyes. Anything I can see, I can video record. >> Trespass your eyes. But if you're over here and they want you to leave. >> Sure. But you're you're assuming you are assuming this is their property. >> Well, it's two of their facilities. >> And it also connects the golf course. It connects that neighborhood and all those houses back there. So, you tell me it's not public road. >> I have seen I have seen the public ride up and down through here on their bikes and cars. >> Okay. But you said you were at the stop sign up there. That's definitely into their property. >> No, it's not. That is a That has to be a public easement. There has to be a public easement to get through. How do you How do visitors get back down through here? It's publicly accessible, right? >> Okay. But when a visitor comes >> Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> They provide identification. >> That's if they go inside. >> Okay. But who who are they? >> So, you're telling me I have to give you my identification? Is that what you're telling me? >> When I asked you for ID, >> you didn't ask me. I did ask you. >> No, you didn't. >> Yes, I did. >> You said >> video is proof of your own. >> You said if I ask you for ID, if I ask you I identify yourself, you have to tell me. And that's wrong as well. I only have to tell you who I am when I'm legally arrested. Legally arrested. Not unlawfully. Nor am I unlawfully detained. Do I have to show you ID? This is not a stop an ID state. Tell me what your reasonable suspicion is. >> Reasonable suspicion is wrong. Wrong. >> H because it's the reason we are here. Understand that. That's what you're not understanding. The reason I am even here >> is because we were called. I get it. Because you are on their property building their facility. >> I'm not on their property. >> Their policy. >> I'm on a roadway. Their policy is not law. Trooper. >> You are a trooper, right? >> I am. Yes. Yeah, I let you finish. Now you let me >> I don't have to know everything. I'm That's fine. I know the law. >> Just be done talking because we're waiting on a responsibility. >> And that's fine. >> As soon as that happens, if it if this is in fact >> Do I get an apology for you? >> No. Why not? >> I need to apologize to you >> for telling me that I am a criminal. >> You're telling me I'm a criminal? >> No, I never said once you >> You just said filming was a crim criminal act. >> If you were on their property, >> dig yourself deeper. It's still not a criminal act. It's still not a criminal act. Would you be would you swallow your pride and your ego if I'm right and apologize? >> Not an ego issue, sir. >> I'm just saying >> we were called here. >> And I all I ask is all I ask is for an apology if you're wrong. >> Okay. Well, sir, like so I did put some things up. All right. So, this is in fact this is their property. All right. And it is illegal to actually film their facility. >> By whose standard? I guess by the state standards. So, >> you can't do that. You can't do that. >> Listen, unfortunately, like I said, I'll looked it up and >> I'll do a gsi survey again and I'll come back if I'm right. >> You have your your ID and stuff. >> I don't have to show you that. Am I being detained? >> What's that? >> You have to ask me to leave. Right. They they're asking me to leave. We found out that if this is their property, I need to leave. Right. >> Right. I'm just I'm just asking you. >> I'm not showing you any ID. >> All right. >> Have a nice day. Well, here's >> I'll be out of I'll be out of here. >> All right. Look, if they call us again and trespass, >> that's fine. >> I was just let warning you. >> Well, when I come back here, sir, I will have proof that this is not state property. >> Okay. >> And I will be allowed on here and if you call them again, you will be on the hook for >> All right, sir. >> Thank you. Thank you for clarifying it. >> No, I'm leaving. I'm not being criminally trespass. I you guys are asking me to leave and I'm leaving. So suck it up. >> All right. So I was just letting you know if come back again you know you'll be trespassing. >> That's fine. >> Can't be >> absolutely fine. >> I I'm fine with that. So I can't ride all the way down through here. >> Okay. >> So I can't ride all the way down through here. >> You can ride down through here. I mean obviously you got to you know get back down to the road but uh I'll follow you down there. Well, no. I mean, I I'll probably just go back this way then. >> Oh, that's the way you came from? >> Yeah. I mean, I came from that way. Okay. >> This encounter raises two key Fourth Amendment questions. Whether filming from a publicly accessible location can create reasonable suspicion of a crime and whether a detention can be justified without identifying a specific offense. Throughout the interaction, the officer relied on policy concerns and the act of filming itself while struggling to articulate a clear criminal violation, highlighting the importance of constitutional limits on government authority.