Do you know the people that own this property? >> questions. >> Do you have your driver's license on you? For what? >> Cuz you're on property that doesn't belong to you. >> How do you know this, sir? >> Cuz you won't answer my questions. You're on property that does not belong to you. How do you know that? >> Because I know you do not live here. >> Who told you this information? That's from knowing the community. You know You know everyone that lives here. You know all their friends. You know everybody that's doing business here. You know everybody that works here. Is that correct? That's not correct. I don't think it's not correct. You're really not worth my time. I'm going to be honest with >> In this encounter, an officer approaches a man parked on property believed to be private after prior complaints in the area. With no specific crime reported, the officer questions him. When he refuses, the encounter escalated into a detention for suspected trespassing. Under the Fourth Amendment, the issue is whether presence alone and refusal to answer creates reasonable suspicion to justify detention. What's going on, man? Nothing. You own You know the people that own this property? I don't answer questions. Huh? I don't answer questions. >> You don't answer questions? >> No, sir. All right. I'm Officer Tibbs with Hardeeville Police Department. I just want to let you know I'm out with you, okay? It's just because you're on this property. Okay. Just checking to see if you know the people that own this place. Okay. We've had people drive through the yard and and cause some damage. I understand. That's it. So, if you don't know them and you're not supposed to be here, then you need to leave the property, okay? Is that fair? I don't answer questions. You don't answer questions. I'll tell you what. You got your driver's license on you? For what, sir? Because I'm getting out with you because you're on property that doesn't belong to you. How do you know this, sir? Cuz you won't answer my questions. So, now I want to identify you to find out Can I talk to your supervisor? Absolutely. You Okay, that's perfect. I was My heart always starts beating every time I talk to a cop. I don't know why. >> listen, man. It It ain't got to be like that. No, I'm saying every time I talk to >> to, though. >> You know what I mean? Just chill. Just conversation. I understand I understand that, but you know, with what's going on nowadays, cops fish a lot. Not here. >> So, you know, that's I I like to make sure. You're on You're on property that you don't own, okay? >> You don't know that, sir. >> I do I do know that you don't own this property. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, you're on property that you don't own. Now, if you have permission to be here, that's fine. But you won't identify yourself, so I don't I don't know that you got permission to be here or not. >> Okay. Okay. So, it's no big deal. He'll be here in a minute. Am I being detained? You're being detained, yes. >> Okay. For what crime? Am I com- Because you wanted to talk to my supervisor. I'm out trying >> Am I I'm being detained because I want to speak to your supervisor? >> trying to find out why you're on this property, okay? >> Okay. Detaining someone for requesting a supervisor does not meet constitutional standards. A lawful detention must be based on suspicion of a crime, not a request for oversight. Uh I'm on my lunch break. I always look for a little So, that's where I know you from. Mhm. Okay. And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. But there's no reason to do that. Does that make sense? It doesn't. Okay, so again, I've already explained why why I got out with you. Uh and I'm cool with that. Okay. I'm just You're getting You're getting my information is what I'm not cool with. >> So, I'll talk to your supervisor. That's fine. Mhm. So, he's on property that he doesn't own. I go to get out with him and pulls through the yard to come out here. Mhm. So, then I drive around, block him off. He immediately doesn't want to identify himself, doesn't want to tell me why he's here. So, now he only wants to speak to his supervisor. So, that would be you because I don't have a supervisor. >> What's up? I don't know. I was at the little part right of the concrete. He pulled behind me. I I saw he was reading my I was was >> the concrete right here? here where the where the little shadow is. Uh I was there and he pulled behind me started uh checking my plates. Yeah. So uh he's Do you live here? When I don't answer questions. When when So when when I when I was when I was I didn't Did I speak with you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is obviously Cuz you're on lunch break, right? Are you on lunch break today? >> answer I don't answer questions. You don't answer questions. Okay. So you're driving in this state though in your own property that is not yours. You understand that, right? >> I don't answer questions, sir. Do you understand that? I don't answer questions. Okay. >> That's a question. I can't I don't I don't answer questions. So listen, man. You're making this more difficult than it needs to be. Mhm. You understand that, right? >> answer questions. Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't answer questions. This is what I got. You do realize that like you acting like this is not helping the situation. I understand. I'll answer that question. I understand that. >> You understand that, right? >> Yes. Okay. So what is the reason for being difficult? Please tell me. I don't answer questions, but uh let me ask you a question. Am I being detained right now? What's that? >> Am I being detained right now? Yes, you are. For what reason, sir? For what reason? >> Yes. For you're on private property that is not yours. How do you know this? What's that? >> How do you know this? This vehicle does not return to here. You will not provide any information to say this property is yours. We patrol this area every single day. Mhm. Okay? Okay. All right. And your car has never been here. And you don't live in that trailer. You understand the police department is a block down the street, right? I'll I'll answer that question. Yes, I do. Okay. So if you can tell me that you're here visiting a friend and we can verify that, we'll be out of here. >> I don't answer questions, sir. But, So, if I >> That's not That's not answering any of your >> your questions, what's going to happen to me at this point? What What do you mean? What's going to happen cuz I'm missing my my lunch break because he did he told me that I was being detained. After I was being detained, I told him I would speak to a supervisor. >> Yeah. So, I want to know what happens. >> to speak with me or you going to play these games? Because I'm all I'm all with being a grown adult in this situation, okay? And I understand your rights and all that, okay? All right? >> Am I required to answer your questions? You are at this point because he is out with you, okay? As a suspicious vehicle on private property. So, at this point, okay, all we need is reasonable suspicion. You understand that, correct? >> Suspicion of what? What's that? >> Suspicion of what? That any type of criminal activity may be a foot. Officers reference reasonable suspicion, but do not clearly identify specific facts supporting a trespassing violation. Like what? >> being able to invest Until our our investigation or our suspicion is dispelled, we can ask you questions, okay? >> Do I have to answer them? What's that? >> Do I have to answer your questions? You have the right my the right to remain silent in anything you want to do. Okay. >> sir. Until you're done with your investigation, I'll be all >> However, what you're leading us to and this is completely unnecessary, okay? >> So, if I'm not doing anything wrong, Listen. I'm supposed to prove to you that I'm not doing nothing wrong. Is that how it works? I'm asking a question. Do you mean that you're a supervisor? Yeah. Mhm. All right. So, let me explain it to you one more time, okay? You're on property that does not belong to you, correct? I don't answer questions. >> Yes. Cuz you don't answer questions, but that is correct. 100% truth at this point. An officer sees that you're here, goes out with your vehicle, and sees that the vehicle is occupied by one individual, which is you. Yes. >> That's truth, okay? So, from that point, what are you doing here, sir? Do you live here? No, I don't. >> questions. And that's what I told them. >> So, do you understand what our job is? Yes. Okay. Okay. Investigate away. >> not where you're supposed to be, go knock on their door. He could He would He would tell me Now, let's say this. [clears throat] Let's say if I would have answered all your questions, >> We would be done. >> Okay. >> That's what I'm saying. Like you're making this more difficult >> difference? If I would answer your questions, >> Listen. Listen. A reasonable person would answer those questions. Okay. >> Okay? And they would understand that when a law enforcement officer stops you in a vehicle, that you are required to identify yourself at that point. Okay. I'll I'll make sure with the chief if that's correct. Cuz that's why I'm recording this That's why we're recording too. >> then I'll then I'll take it up a little higher and find out if you know, if everything that you guys have done from the moment that I started recording was correct. We'll we'll find out cuz That's why >> I know I'm not doing nothing wrong. You're absolutely doing something wrong by not identifying yourself at this point. >> Have I committed a crime? What's that? >> Have I committed a crime? Have you committed a crime? As far as what? Trespassing? >> Trespassing? >> Yes, you have. >> So, you have committed So, the law for trespassing, don't I have to be told to leave in order for me to be trespassed? What's that? >> Don't I have to be told to leave a place in order to be trespassed? You could be. Yes. All right, but if it's posted, no. Or if Or if the resident calls and says there's somebody here and I don't want them here. >> Did someone call? >> come make contact with you and identify you. No, no one called. The officer acknowledges key elements of trespassing such as notice or a complaint, yet neither appears to be present in this situation. Okay. >> Again, I I understand why you're making this more difficult than it needs to be. Don't I have the right to remain silent? You always have the right to remain silent. >> If you haven't told me I I committed a crime Do you have a driver's license? I don't answer questions. Okay. So, see, here we go. So, you expect us to let you drive off. What have I done wrong? I've already told you that. You're on property that does not belong to you. Correct? >> that? What's that? >> How do you know that? Because I know you do not live here. Who told you this information? What's that? >> Who told you this information? >> That's from knowing the community. The street that we drive down hundreds of times every single day. Okay. Okay? So, you know everyone that that lives here? No, I'm asking a question. You know everyone that lives here. You know all their friends. You know everybody. You know everybody that's doing business here. You know everybody that works here. Is is that correct? >> No, that's not correct. People don't park right there on somebody's front lawn that don't live here. You understand that, right? >> answer questions, sir. So >> asking questions that I don't want to answer. So, don't I have the right to not answer the questions I don't want to answer? >> not answer whatever you want. >> remain silent. So, whatever question you ask I'll play I'll I'll plead the fifth. I'll stay quiet. Okay. >> And I'll let you do what you got to do. Like I said, I know I'm not doing nothing wrong. I know I know I'm not doing nothing wrong. >> even saying you're doing anything wrong. >> So, why am I being detained? Why am I being Why is he asking for my license? When nobody has called The Fifth Amendment protects the right to remain silent, and exercising that right cannot be used as justification for extending a detention. Nobody has told me to leave. My car wasn't off. Oh, was it off? You started driving in the wrong lane. >> was was my car I get nervous. >> with you? Okay, go ahead. Do what you got to Can you identify yourself or not? What's going to happen if I don't show any other identification? >> Well, I can't let you leave because I don't know if you have a driver's license. Then I'll stay here. Do you want me to turn off the car? I'll put Turn it off? Keys on board? Cuz I like like sir, I haven't been told to leave. I was in the I was in the little >> Listen. Listen. I'm listening. Go ahead. I understand what you're saying. Okay. As far as you haven't been told to leave and that you know You know you just parked here. >> to interrupt you. Last time I spoke to you, chief, Mhm. he told me that nobody should have kicked me out of that place, that I was in a public place. I was kicked out of it. Okay. So, my thing is this. Mhm. Who took You're saying just because of your knowledge of the people that live here, now, where's the sign that I said that I can't park there, to turn around, to do anything? >> Listen. I understand where you're going with this, all right? And you have a valid point. Okay? As far as Are there no trespassing signs posted on the property? I don't see any. Okay? So, I'll agree with you on >> What if I was looking for land? What if I'm looking for information to buy? >> let me ask you this. Which Which I am, by the way. Let me Let me ask you this. Okay? Just again, we can play this game all day. I'm not playing no games, sir. This is my life. I have to be sure of what I >> Okay. Are you going to let me talk or you going to continue? All right. However, most people most people Mhm. when they come into contact with law enforcement, all right? Mhm. will state, "Hey, what are you doing here? You're on private property." "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know. I will be leaving." Okay? You understand that? Or they'll say, "Oh, well, I'm checking out this land because I'm interested in buying it and I saw this for sale. >> I'm pleading the fifth every time you ask a question, so if I stay quiet, I don't want you to think it's not >> You're really not worth my time. I'm going to be honest with you, okay? Cuz I I feel sorry for that, bro. I mean, you're really not. Okay. Okay? You need to leave. I'm trying to leave. I was As soon as your car pulled behind me, I I tried to leave. He didn't even have to say anything. >> Listen. As soon as he pulled behind me, I knew that it was going to be a problem that I was parked there. >> Mhm. That because he said I was parked. So, I tried to leave. >> knew that I wasn't going to go I wasn't I wasn't >> were doing nothing wrong Let me finish. I wasn't going to go back because he was blocking my path. At that point, what am I going to do? There's another exit. So, nowhere says you can't drive through there to here. There's nothing. I know you're explaining in circles. I understand. But at this point, we're we're stuck. We're stuck because >> I'm not showing ID We have >> if I don't have a reason to show you ID, I'm a I'm a plead the fifth to every question you ask. So, see Like I said, do what you need to do. I'm not stopping you from doing nothing. If you But see, we're not Again, like I look at things as we can we can play this, but you're really not worth my time, honestly. So, can I You're not worth me ripping out of your vehicle, okay? >> I'll I'll get out. You know what I'm saying? >> I'm just saying. If you tell me to get out, I'll get out. You don't have to rip You don't have to threaten me with ripping me out of the car. >> letting you know if like that's what you're looking for, like for this to escalate any further, it's not going to. Why would I want to be ripped out of my own car? Because that's what some people do, all right? They They do this to get a reaction from us. Again, dude. I was enjoying my lunch break. That The last thing I want >> you said the last >> thing I want to be doing is to be talking to you on my lunch break. I only get an hour for lunch break. >> Mhm. Right now, I'm a I'm about to be I'm going to have to clock in. So, I'm going to have to start charging you by the minute because I have to be working somewhere else. So, this is what I'm trying to tell you. There's >> Yeah. There's guys that you have to follow. So, I'm making sure that you stay by it. Yeah. Now, if I If you tell me I have to do something because if not you'll arrest me, then I'll do it. So, say those words and then I'll then threaten me with arrest if I don't show you show you show you my ID, then I'll show you my ID. Well, that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous, right? Because you know what's going to happen after. I'm going to have to go make a complaint. Now, if you don't tell me I'm free to go and if I'm being detained, tell me why and if not and after that I'll talk to your supervisor. I told you why. Okay. Can I And now you expect me to let you drive off without verifying that you have a good driver's license. I don't expect you to do nothing, sir. That's what you're asking us to do. What's your job? Yep. Yep. Okay. So, So, if I don't show you my license, what's going to happen? You're going to keep me here all day? No. Am I going to miss work? No, I'm going to tell you not to drive. Okay, so I'm not going to be able to drive? Right now? You're going to stop me from driving? What's that? You're going to stop me from driving? You can make your own decisions. So, can I Can you move your squad car so I can He's got a customer number. What's his name? Mr. Contreras. Contreras? Yeah. Oh my goodness. So, like again, am I free to go? Or not yet? Not yet. Okay. No. What are you waiting for right now for so as you can let me go? To make sure the vehicle's clear and >> Okay. I'll I'll be waiting for that. Can I get out cuz it's hot and the sun is Uh as long as you're detaining me, I'd rather not stay in the car. So, here's where we're at, okay? Again, you're not you're not worth any type of lawsuit, use of force event, anything like that, all right? So, if you don't listen >> me with that? Are you Are you going to listen to me? I'm trying to. Okay. Without you threatening me and then I'm I get hyped. a driver's license, Uh-huh. which you know for fact, yes or no, okay? Then I would not drive. That's my advice to you. Take it or leave it, okay? Cuz when we stop you on a traffic stop, if that happens, you are required to identify yourself, okay? You understand that, correct? >> answer questions, sir. I told you any questions you have Anyways, you can listen. >> my answer. >> No, let me finish. >> Okay, I'll let you finish. >> Since we can't make contact with that homeowner right now to verify that you're allowed to be here, all right, you can sit here until they get home. Consider this your education session, okay? Because the next time it's going to end up like this. >> You showed more attitude and everything. Now, I feel like Mr. Teabo, he knows me already. He didn't remember my car, he remember he even knows he they even told me where I live. So, I feel like they have it against me now cuz he even threatened me if I if we stop you somewhere else, that means they're going to be looking for me. This encounter centers on the Fourth Amendment, which requires reasonable, articulable suspicion of a specific crime before detention. Here, officers relied on the man's presence and refusal to answer questions without a complaint or clear trespass. Although they acknowledged his right to remain silent, they continued using it to justify the stop, raising serious constitutional concerns.