On June 28th, 2023, officers responded to a call about a dog left in a parked car in a Walmart lot, raising concerns of animal cruelty due to heat. When the owner returned, officers began investigating. While the initial contact was justified, the focus shifted to his refusal to identify himself, raising questions about whether the continued detention met Fourth Amendment standards. Is Is this your car? Yeah. Okay. I was this close to breaking the window out. There's >> that hot. It's 95°. It means it's over 100 inside the vehicle. >> I've been in there The windows have to be cracked. There's There's got to be >> I was trying to keep the air conditioning in for him cuz I was I literally >> Okay, go and open that door for the and crack the windows open for the dog and let me see your driver's license, please. 4:28 and that was the vehicle owner. You have a good day. Hi. Okay. Hi. Hi. All right. You You can feel it. >> Stop. It's 95°. >> If it's inside, I would keep the AC in. Trust me, I love my dog. >> the car The car isn't running. He offers the officer a chance to feel the cooler air in the cabin of the vehicle, but she only focuses on the 95° temperature outside the vehicle. I take him with me everywhere. Okay. I just need to see your driver's license. I don't have it with me. You have any ID with you? No. Do you know your driver's license number? Uh what did I do wrong? This This is a criminal offense. No break. What What is criminal offense? For animal neglect and abuse, yes. >> No. No, I do not abuse or neglect my animal. Okay. I need a supervisor. >> Okay. Driver's license. I need a supervisor, please. What is your driver's license? Please, I need a supervisor. I don't have one on duty right now. At this stage, officers are investigating a reported offense. Under the Fourth Amendment, they must be able to articulate specific facts suggesting a crime has occurred or is occurring. A request for identification alone does not automatically create a legal obligation to comply unless tied to a lawful detention or arrest under state law. This Look, I respect officers. I have family that are officers, but I also respect the Constitution. >> Go ahead and crack your your windows and then close your door. Okay, what did you say? Yep. 4:08, think it's still being run, please. 10-4. Wait out here. I'll call a supervisor and see if he can contact me by phone. You use Okay, I'm out with the subject keys out here. Um he's refusing to identify himself. He's now asking for a supervisor. He asked for a supervisor, okay. Uh hold on. Are you back in route to you? Where Where Where Where are you at? Uh Do you Do you want to talk to him on the phone? No, I'm right down the street. Okay. All right, I'm coming back in a minute. Okay. All right. All right. Supervisor's turning back around and he's going to come out. I would never I would never do that. I would just It's not This is some of the worst [ __ ] It's 95° outside. That doesn't matter. It's It's If I cracked the windows, that would let the 95° air in. I literally had it freezing cold in there before I shut it I'm responding out to a call, okay? Sure, I understand. And this is This is me responding. I'm not telling you you're a bad dog a dog owner anything like that. >> Well, yeah. I am here because I still have to do my job. I have to identify you now, okay? Cuz I'm out here for an offense. No. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, I'll let you talk to the to the supervisor when he gets out here. Hello. Is Is this a legit tag? Uh yeah. All right, they weren't able to get a return on it. 460 traffic. All right, I'm 460. Carolyn in Broken Arrow on Sam Roberts John at 200 Sam Roberts John 5200 coming in white Chevy No, you're You're This is a private parking lot. I'm not going to ask you to run your vehicle. I mean concern is just the dog's okay. And then I For documentation purposes, I do have to put your information in there, okay? I'm not saying you're going to jail. I'm not saying you're being issued a citation. I'm just trying to do my job cuz everything has to be noted that I made contact, okay? Here, the officer states the purpose of identification is documentation. However, documentation alone is not a legal standard for detention. The Fourth Amendment requires reasonable suspicion tied to a specific crime, not administrative convenience. And make sure the well-being of that animal is okay. It's a going to be close to 100° inside that vehicle. It's 95° out here. >> I know it's going to be 95° in there. I had it freezing cold. Your car is not running. I know. I shut it off. I closed the windows. I let the freezing cold air in there. Trust me, when I opened the door to get in there, it was colder inside than it was outside. I would not do that to my dog. Okay. He goes everywhere with me. Hey. Hey, this is not the supervisor. This is a cover officer. Um this is my supervisor right here. How's it going? How you doing? I'm Sergeant Tyler. Nice to meet you, sir. Bro, show us police card. Just show you that arm. Sergeant Tyler, would you like to see my ID also? I'm sure they got something for you today. Okay. All right. So, what what did you speak with me about? Well, she uh I guess got a call about my dog. >> Yes, sir, we did. I parked the car off and I I had it freezing cold in there. I literally had it just sitting there. Okay. I had it freezing freezing cold. It's not sunny anymore. Okay, so it's not you know, radiating heat or anything like that. >> Okay. And I went inside. I'd been in there for over 15 minutes. Okay. And I mean, she's I mean, I wouldn't have done her wrong. Okay. [laughter] So, when we get a call for service, >> Uh-huh. because and especially the when we do contact somebody, we do need to identify person. >> law. Hang on. I'm not done. Let me finish speaking, okay? Now, we don't know you had your car at subzero degrees earlier today. Sure. We have no idea. Cuz somebody did call and say, "Hey, there's an animal left in the vehicle. It is hot outside." If I call for a fictitious name, I can't do that. The discussion now centers on Texas failure to identify law. Generally, a person must identify themselves after a lawful arrest. During a detention, providing false information can be a crime, but remaining silent or refusing ID may not be, depending on the circumstances. I mean, residence address or day of birth to an off- peace officer who has a lawfully arrested person B or to lawfully detain the person. Now, this is only if I I cannot give a fictitious name. This is Watch. It's back. I do not have to show my ID. Watch. A person commits a crime if A person Look, it's right here. A person commits an offense I Yes. And you Let me read it again to you. A person commits an offense You're totally not in You didn't understand. This is I This says I can't give you a false name. This is a different section. This is the first thing. That's not my problem. It really isn't. No, it isn't. Okay. Here's the deal. Here's Here's what can happen cuz you refuse to identify yourself. And say, "Here's what I'm doing because you're going to arrest me for refusing to identify myself." You just read it. I read Yeah, I cannot give you a false name. What What are you police pulled up? I swear to God I'm not lying here. I don't There was two different sections I read, okay? The other Hang on. Listen to me. Oh my God. The other part of it is is that when you do that, the other consequence is that we have to impound your your dog and we don't want to do that either. You said you love your dog. Yeah, that would be that would be retaliation. No, no, sir, it's not. We can't leave the dog Do you guys want a massive lawsuit on your hands? I mean, you How's that retaliation when we can't leave the dog here in the car by itself? Really? Yes, sir. You're going to I'm letting the I'm letting the dog >> how This is America. This is what you do with your citizens. Okay? All I did was go inside, grab some clothes quick. You know what I said the car, got it. You know, somebody called. Okay, that's what you do. I mean, you didn't do anything wrong. You know? You know, you can't call me wrong. So, you did something wrong. Doesn't mean you did anything wrong. We were called out here to investigate. Sure. And you investigated. You realized God was not distressed. Completely that. I'm going to need your identification. >> the way the law works. This is what you do. That's not how it works. Dude, you didn't read it to me. I read it to you and you didn't understand. Those were two different sections. The second one says I can't give you a false name. Okay? If detained. It does I swear to God you only have I know this better than you. No, you really don't. Well, then look it up. You don't have a phone? And you're not understanding what I just read because I just read it to you. Did I not read that I cannot give you a false or fictitious name if I've been detained? Doesn't say I have to give my ID. It says if I've been No, the first section says I have to give my ID if I've been lawfully arrested. The second section says I cannot give you a false or fictitious name if I've been detained. It does not state that I have to give you my name or ID. I just cannot give you a false or fictitious one. What is your end goal here? To get the You guys need to be educated. You really don't understand that what I'm telling you is actually the truth. And you got And officers So, what is your end goal? To go on about my way. So is ours. Go on. But you you have this addiction to ID. I'm not putting the law in this. This is an unlawful detention. This this is our duty. We have to identify you. Show me the law. You just read it out loud. >> and you're not understanding cuz I just read it to you. I know we understand it. We we do this day in and day out. >> Okay. So, you agree with me the first part says I have to show my ID if I've been lawfully arrested, right? At this point, the man is directly asking officers to articulate reasonable suspicion. Under the Fourth Amendment, officers must be able to explain what specific crime they believe is occurring, not rely solely on a generalized complaint once it has been investigated. You agree with that? You guys are not even reading I read it. Okay? And the second part says I cannot give you a false name. It does not say anything Guys, you realize surprised. I mean, the way YouTube is now, I'm surprised you guys the way YouTube is now. These videos are all over YouTube about the ID thing. Is that where you get your education from? Is is from YouTube? >> it from the Texas statutes, actually. Okay. All right. So, you're And there actually is some good information on YouTube, you know. It's not all good, but there is some good. Really? There's nothing good on There's nothing accurate But there is some stuff that is not very I mean, it's just the law of America, you know. There's some good people and bad people. Educated and foreign people who put stuff on there. There's some dumbasses who put stuff on there. You know? You just have to do your due diligence. I'm telling you. Pull it up and read it. It literally I mean, I just read it to you. What part are you not understanding? Where are you confused with it? Run run the VIN on the car. Okay. Okay, that's I want to check the VIN. It's a very There's two There's two simple things. You just admitted on camera that you're running my VIN to get my ID. I have a sir, we can We run tags all the time. Yeah. That's That's what it is. That's on a VIN number. It's a tag. So, we get identification of the owner of the I'm in a private parking lot right now. I just opened it up. My dog's in there. I mean, Sure. Doesn't mean you can unlawfully detain me to check the VIN. Well, I'm not unlawfully detaining you because we're here on a call for service. And we already determined that the dog is fine. So, what's your reasonable articulable suspicion that I have committed, am committing, or am about to commit a crime? Because we got the call for service. What's your reasonable articulable suspicion? Well, there has been no crime committed. And you have investigated, realized there was no crime. We don't know that. And now we have failure to identify. No, you don't. My goodness. Ma'am, you need to really get educated. Why won't you read it? I wouldn't lie to you. Just look it up. You won't even read it. That's how bad it is that you won't even read it. I'm telling you. I'm out here with someone that I do not know who I am out here with. I'm not going to get distracted in a cell phone or a computer. >> the law? I'm You'd rather just arrest me? I don't need to read the law. Yeah, you do. We do this day in and day out. >> Improperly, apparently. Okay. Look, this is something I know this Look, this is something I'm very adamant about is constitutional rights and I know I know this. I'm not I didn't get this from some guy who heard it from somebody else. I know this. Okay? I know I just suspicion that we had was the call for service. Yeah, and you came out and you investigated. Okay. You investigated the dog, right? No, we're not investigating the dog. We're investigating the owner of the dog. Okay. Well, you realized there was nothing no crime committed. Well, you don't know that. So, you have no reasonable articulable suspicion then. Yes. No. You just said If If If a crime has been committed or is about to be committed. So, and we're Has been, is about to be, or is currently, yeah. Have I committed a crime? Well, currently failed ID. That's not a crime. It's only a crime if you've been lawfully arrested. And if you take the time to just read the freaking statute, you'd realize this. Brother, I'm not lying to you, man. Just read it. I just read it to you. Yes, you You You read it yourself. Yes. Section one says if I've been lawfully arrested, I must give my ID. Section two says if I've been lawfully detained, I'm sorry. I cannot dealership. I cannot uh Stop like a give you a false name. That's That's what it says. I I can't give you a false name and you can ask me for my ID, but I do not have to give it to you. Trust me, man. I know the way this works. Just Why won't you read it? This is blowing my mind. I mean, I was I was standing right next to you. We We read it together. >> shocked that three officers really don't know this. That out of the three of you, a supervisor of all things. Usually the supervisor is the one that knows. Man, I'm I'm speaking to you and I do know it. And again, we read it I stood right next to you while we read it together. Yeah. And I just told you what it said. Where does it say that I have to show my ID? Where does it say that I have to show my ID in what I just read to you? Yeah, 3802 you just read. What part? Failed ID when someone is lawfully detained. No. I cannot give you a false name when I'm lawfully detained. It It literally it's different. You have to give your ID, okay? It says that I can't I can't give you a like make up a name to try to But I don't have to give you my name. I'm telling you this. I know this. I know this very very well. It's something very passionate about. Okay. There's no doubt in my mind. We're trying to get this done so you can be gone and out of here so we can be gone out of here, too. Yeah, leave. I mean, what is keeping you here? Yeah, you can. No, sir, we cannot. Guys, I'm going Because what what could happen is is that you got the animal cruelty call, okay? We don't know for sure exactly how long you were in the store. What can't happen with what I'm explaining to you is is that the crime of animal cruelty has possibly is it currently or had been committed. Well, investigate. Investigate. That's That's That's the part >> You said You just said you don't know how long I've been in the store. If you knew how long I'd been in the store, So, the part of the investigation is is then we contact Walmart and say, "Hey, Okay, investigate. Here's what we need to do. That's fine. You got my VIN number. We need to figure out who this person is and how long you've been in the store and how long the animal I have explained this thoroughly enough and physically read the statute to you. You guys are losing your qualified immunity, okay? Seriously. No, sir. Yes. When you When it has been explained to you or the law has actually been read to you, okay? You're losing qualified immunity. I don't want to do that to you, but I I've got a passion about our Constitution. Really, you guys need to be educated, apparently, cuz you're out there doing this, violating people's constitutional rights all the time. This is unbelievable. Are you a sergeant? Yes, sir. And you don't know this? The detention continues even after officers acknowledge uncertainty about whether a crime occurred. Prolonging a detention without new facts can raise constitutional concerns, particularly if the original justification has been resolved. Absolutely. I guess as you're saying I don't know. Bewildering. I mean, this is just I am I'm sorry. beside myself. You just read it with Call your lieutenant. We don't have a lieutenant. Captain. No, sir. The only person higher than me is the chief. The chief. Okay. So, I'm not calling the chief right now. Well, you can probably save the town a lot of money by doing that. They'll probably appreciate it. What is it that you would you like to speak to the chief? Yeah. I just He's my supervisor. Yeah. And if you talk to him, tell him to look up 3802 and read it out loud to you guys. Okay, then he'll tell you to Apparently you don't. Yeah. I cannot give my identification. I don't have to give you my name. I'm not lying to y'all. I know this like very very very well. I don't understand why you guys won't look it up. It doesn't make any sense to me. I just want to get We can understand. A lot of people died for us to have these freedoms not, you know, for the police to not walk up on you and just start demanding your your papers. >> I I walked up on you because there was a criminal act that appears to be committed, okay? There is a dog in the car in 95 degrees. >> Isn't it sunny outside? >> It's 95. It doesn't have to be. >> Is it sunny? You know how many dead dogs I've pulled out of the car? Was it sunny when you did it? How many dead dogs have you pulled out in the night? Night Oh, plenty. Really? Plenty. Really? How many? Yes. Tell me. How many How many dead dogs have you pulled out in the night? Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. People like you think that that it's okay People like me to keep dogs in the car when the sun is down because you think just because When you cool it down to freezing right before I mean it was really really cold there before I got out. I do that intentionally. I'm here to do my job to investigate and you're hindering that. How are you going to What are you trying to do? What is it? >> identification and right now the dog is having to sit in the car even further >> Yeah, because you really don't care about the animal, do you? because not identify yourself. >> care about the animal, do you? I'm here my job. You're here to get my ID. That's all you want. I need your identification to complete this process. It's black to guys. It's required. >> No, it isn't. Would you freaking read 3802? Don't shine the light in my eyes. So, I need you to lower it. Is it lowered enough? No, I need you to lower it so it's not shining in my eyes. Is it lowered enough now? >> I would not turn print down. >> Okay, I got to turn the Turn the flashlight off. Is your volume on on your camera? Of course. All right. Would you read chapter It's right there. Dude, I'm going to read it. No, I am not. Do you realize how bad this >> here with you. >> how bad this is going to look in court? That's fine. But you refuse to read the statute. I am on a call. I'm not bearing my face in a computer. To find the law, you don't care? You You think you don't know the law? You don't have to? You don't have to know the law? I already know it. I already I already know. You you do not know this. I am beside myself that none of you are aware of this because it's been a huge thing lately on the internet. I'm surprised none of you have heard of this. I mean it's I'm beside myself. Really really am. I don't know what to say. I can't believe you refuse to even look at it. Why would you do that? I mean how does that make any sense? How does it make any I just put my phone in front of you. Do you have a call coming? It's called No, not yet. Okay. All right. If If you need to get it's fine. Where's Tyler at? He's I'm really not trying to give you a hard time. I'm trying to educate you because what you do is really It's >> All right. I I really hope you guys go home and >> anything to you. I don't I don't I don't I'm just saying when you go home tonight, please look up 3802 and read it. Okay. I'm here at the back of unit. That's it. Please when you go home tonight, look at 3802 I I've read it. I've I've read it. I've studied it. I've tested over it. Right, but you're trans you're interpreting it All right. This is a known fact. I mean this is not You You just Google it when you get home. Sure. Texas ID laws. Mhm. You do not I mean It's a sad state that this country has come to. Yeah, it is. So Dude, look it up in the I didn't talk to you. I didn't call to you. I don't need to call you. Unless Unless you really would like for me to call him, but um I don't I don't need to call him and talk to him. So Here's Here's the deal. Okay? Ultimately this is animal cruelty call. Okay? You're investigating it. There's no really animal cruelty. We're still investigating the animal cruelty call. Anytime a dog's in the car and the windows are rolled up I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I didn't say what I said. I didn't say what I said. What did I say? I said as far as we're investigating Up in here. And you can investigate without giving your identification. That's what you guys don't understand. If we believe that you have committed a crime, part which is partly part of for this animal cruelty, yes sir, you do have to identify yourself. To You can detain me. It's not till I'm lawfully arrested that I have to give my ID. Okay? No sir, that's not Yes. Why don't you just look it I don't I've been following you guys around and you won't look it up. I've already I've already I've already read it. I've already read it. Do you not agree that it says I do agree with that. Okay, it says has to be But it also says lawfully arrested. Right. That I cannot give a false name. It just says I cannot give a false name. It doesn't say you have to show your ID like the top like the first one does, okay? It's worded completely different for a reason because I just I can't give you a false name. I don't have to give my name. Okay, but give us a false name. I'm not going to give you a false name. Well, how do we know that? See, that's what I'm wondering. It's not my problem. It's not my problem. I'm sorry. That That's something you got to figure out. I mean Well, you won't identify yourself. So, how do we know >> Yeah, because I don't have to because the Constitution of the United States of America you know, something that you swore an oath to Yes, sir. Yeah? Yeah. I'm pretty passionate about it. It's all right. I'm passionate about my job and Officers now maintain the detention based on a continued investigation. However, the key legal question remains whether there are still articulable facts supporting that investigation or if the detention has shifted solely to compel identification. >> about helping people. I'm passionate about Violating people's civil rights, apparently. No, sir. Yeah. I've never been accused of that. Well, you're doing it right now. No, I'm not. I wouldn't lie. So This is ridiculous. I am I am truly beside myself that none of the three of you know this. I mean it's all over the freaking It's a huge thing. It's Everybody knows this. Everybody knows. Everybody knows that. Yeah. Yes, sir. [ __ ] you guys are breaking Apparently Apparently. I'm I'm shocked that a sergeant does not know this. That's not good. Yeah. So, what What What would you like for to see happen? That's what I'm wondering. Go on about your way. I'll go on about mine. Yeah, we could. Yeah. What would be wrong with that? Absolutely nothing would be wrong with that. Well, there you go. What would also be awesome is is if you say, "Hey, dude, this is this is actually kind of ridiculous and here's my ID and we're gone." Dude, this is actually kind of ridiculous and you should just go. Okay. Well it is kind of ridiculous. It is very But we still need to investigate. >> And I can literally read it in front of you and you cannot comprehend. I do comprehend it. Then what does it say? That I cannot give you a false name, right? Right, but it doesn't say No, no, no. Arrested I have to give my ID. Lawfully detained. Yeah. And then it states I'm not trying to be a jerk to y'all, you know, I'm just I I'm passionate I have a I have a third cousin I I I literally have uh eight presidents I'm related to within six degrees of separation. They were moved several times, but I'm very passionate about the Constitution. And you guys really I I implore you to educate yourselves about this. Stand right there. So We didn't do that. But is it proven to be true? Yeah. So Here's a loose and you know, we know he's That's what he's doing. Mhm. What if that trip had been that in the human thing, but whatever. I I agree. Mhm. I agree. However, this is where we're at. It's going to be a welfare past act as telling me that this is hurtful. Yeah. So, this is where we're at. So, we want to do the prudent thing, not necessarily the always the Just cuz we can doesn't always mean we should. Yeah. The picture is the animal is okay. Mhm. Yes, he's being a jerk. Mhm. 10-10-20. 10-10-20, we no longer have the visual of the vehicle. Caller is no longer on the line. So, Okay. That's where we're at. Okay. So, here's the deal. Although, 10-10-20, the plate does come back to 4012 our front I don't want to argue with you. I don't know. I'm not trying to give you guys a hard time. I'm trying to answer your questions for you. You give me a hard time. Let me finish. Sure. Yes, you are trying to give us a hard time. I'm not trying to. I really not. Secondly, I'm just trying to get my dog. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Sure. Sure. Secondly, the animal cruelty will still continue to be investigated. Okay? What? Hang on. Hang on. Let me finish. Okay? Now, then, because you believe you know the law, I know. Okay? And we also know the law. I know. I know. I'm just Sorry. I barely you think you're you're officer. No. There's no way you could not possibly know this. I'm not saying I'm not saying that you're >> Yes, what it is. that that you're just somebody and I'm just one, huh. So, you think okay? I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying that you don't know the law. But, I do, too. Also, the other part of it is What's that? When you get When you get home tonight, like tell Okay. I really want you guys to Just Just so you guys are really well. Thank you. Okay. Here's what's going to happen tonight. Tonight, you're going to be cut loose. Okay? Because the animal is okay right now. If we do investigate further and then we contact Walmart, watch the video, see if the animal was in distress, there's a potential then a case can be filed for animal cruelty against you. So, you're okay? Yeah. Does that make sense? Make sense, but the animal wasn't in distress. He's not in distress now. He's probably getting a little irritated, but I'm sure he is. >> It's hot out here. Yeah, I imagine so. So, I wish you guys had you put your hand in the car when I opened the door. It was literally cooler inside than it was outside, okay? And you guys have to investigate, but yeah, but you can't automatically assume the worst of me. That's That's why it's called an investigation. We don't assume the worst. Right. That's why we call it investigation. Officers come out, they investigate, they contact people, they say, "Hey, is this your car?" "Yes, this is my car." "Is this your animal?" "Yes, it's my animal." Can I have your ID, please? Cuz you're lawfully detained cuz there is a complaint and possible criminal offense of animal cruelty. Yeah, that's the thing. Sure. You can investigate, but you don't have to give me ID to investigate. Look, I've told you we have an epidemic in this country of constitutional rights getting violated all the time through this, and I just >> here. I know you guys don't think I could possibly be right. And I also didn't do that tonight. But, you stupid No, no. And I also didn't do it, and I didn't do that tonight, either. Well, I mean, technically, this detainment has lasted a little longer than it's supposed to, but That's >> I'm not That's duty. That's So. It's duty, yes. Well, actually, So, again, here's what's going to happen tonight. We will do our continue our investigation after you're long and gone from here. Sure. And then if we have to contact you again, got to be law. All right. Take. Sure. You are free to go. Go home. This encounter centers on the Fourth Amendment, which requires reasonable, articulable suspicion to justify a detention. While officers could respond to the initial welfare call, once no distress was found, the basis for continued detention became unclear. Under Texas law, ID is typically required after arrest, not detention, though false information can be a crime.